No.1820181
>>1820046
*hot and valid
No.1820230
Idk plenty of people like Hoxha
No.1820252
>>1820230Yeah the TPLF (imperialist stooges) and some rebels Hugo Chavez killed as a young officer
No.1820269
Shhh, demsocs need a, from their perspective, pure and untainted martyr to rally around. (not saying Rosa isn't cool, just that this is what's happening).
No.1820300
>>1820033Who don't love Rosa
, except soc-dem gang ofc?
No.1820304
>>1820300Roda was a reformist and a socdem. How did this ahistorical meme start?
No.1820308
i completely agree, the softer perception of her is purely because she was a martyr and to a lesser degree because she was a woman. lady handed political opposition over to the cops to strengthen her partys position, thought lenin was a pussy for advocating for national self-determination. her objections to "undemocratic" practices of the bolsheviks wouldve disappeared within a week if they had won power
No.1820309
>>1820304The woman who criticized socdem and moderate wings of 'marxism' and Lenin for being "too soft" was a reformist?
No.1820311
>>1820309The woman who founded socdem parties and advocated for pariliamentism.
No.1820313
>>1820311She split with said parties and tried to overthrow her government through force of arms
No.1820314
>Luxemburg, like most Marxists of her generation (as well as Karl Marx himself) held that a democratic republic with universal suffrage was the formation best suited for waging the class struggle to a successful conclusion. Like many of her contemporaries in the Second International, she saw no contradiction between fighting for democratic reforms within capitalism while reaching for a revolutionary transformation that would abolish capitalism — even as she relentlessly battled those who separated the two.
https://www.rosalux.de/en/news/id/47060/rosa-luxemburg-was-the-great-theorist-of-democratic-revolution No.1820315
>>1820304"social democrat" meant something different back then lol
No.1820316
>>1820315Yeah, I don't think they realize that was the view of the fucking second international too.
No.1820317
>>1820316Literally says that two posts above you.
No.1820327
>>1820304didnt she call social democracy a rotting corpse
No.1820333
We social democrats have a much simpler and easier task: today we need only work to direct the class struggle, which has been inflamed with inexorable necessity. The Blanquists tried to drag the masses behind them, whereas we social democrats are today pushed by the masses. The difference is great – as great as that between a sailor who strives to realign the current to his boat and one whose task is to hold the line of a boat carried by the current. The first will never have enough power and will fail in his goal, while the second must only ensure that the boat does not deviate from its route, is not broken on a reef or beached on a sandbank.
Clearly no social democrat falls for the illusion of the proletariat being able to maintain itself in power. If it could, it would lead to the domination of its working class ideas and it would realise socialism. But it is not strong enough at this time, for the proletariat, in the strictest sense of the word, constitutes a minority in the Russian empire. The achievement of socialism by a minority is unconditionally excluded, since the very idea of socialism excludes the domination of a minority. So, on the day of the political victory of the proletariat over tsarism, the majority will claim the power which the former has conquered.
Concretely, after the fall of tsarism, power will pass into the hands of the most revolutionary part of society, the proletariat, because the proletariat will take possession of all posts and keep watch over them until power is placed in the hands of those legally called upon to hold it – in the hands of the new government, which the Constituent [Assembly], as the legislative organ elected by the whole population, is alone able to determine. Now, it is a simple fact that it is not the proletariat that constitutes a majority in society, but the petty bourgeoisie and the peasantry, and that, as a consequence, it will not be the social democrats who form a majority in the Constituent, but the democratic peasants and petty bourgeois. We may lament this fact, but we will not be able to change it.
No.1820363
>>1820033>she would have responded to the krondstadt mutiny by having every single anarchist in russia publicly executed.Could be but she would have also implemented actual socialism with worker soviets controlling means of production instead of the abomination USSR turned into.
No.1820364
>>1820325Based Rosa. National liberation was a shitty idea from the start.
No.1820366
>>1820363She would also be an extreme chauvinist rivaling Brezhnev. Not a good idea
No.1820368
>>1820033Rosa Luxemburg would never lead the Soviet Union because she was pro-democracy and anti-autocracy
She herself acknowledged this:
>>1820333 No.1820372
>>1820366>extreme chauvinist In what way? Putting bullets through the skulls of nationalists is not chauvinism but the opposite.
No.1820378
>>1820368Yes she was a real communist unlike Lenin and his successors.
No.1820404
>>1820363The problem of the USSR was not expanding socialism to the rest of the world, what you described is just the inevitability of not doing so.
No.1820407
>>1820368this sounds like autocracy apologism. are you an autocracy apologist?
>>1820404cut the bolsheviks some slack, the conditions of a worldwide socialist revolution werent present. other european communist revolutions failed around the same time period
No.1820414
>>1820407Because so far it's been the only wave of socialist revolutions in history…
>the conditions of a worldwide socialist revolution werent presentBringing up "material conditions" doesn't say anything.
No.1820422
>>1820407I'm saying Rosa would never "lead" the ussr in the same way as the bolsheviks, s8nce she believed in democracy. The course of USSR would be less decided by her will than it would be the popular will of the majority.
No.1820425
>>1820422>the popular will of the majorityholy libshittery. the proletariat isnt the majority of any country so talking about democracy is stupid
No.1820427
>>1820404>you have disband soviets and worker control because of foreign countriesThis seems like a cope.
No.1820429
>>1820414what a fucking idiot
are you ignoring the fact that one of the biggest factors for the decomposition of a workers state is a bureaucratic chaste divorced from the proletariat?
oh nvm Perfect Comrade Messiah knows everything about everything all the time
No.1820431
>>1820429So it wasn't "the conditions" but actually a flawed party program?
No.1820432
>>1820431it was both. that hardly justifies an autocracy being a prerrequisite for the abolition of the state wtf
No.1820433
>>1820372>Putting bullets through the skulls of nationalists is not chauvinism but the opposite.So the proletariat of Poland that doesn't want to be under the great-Russian sphere of Sovietism would get killed?
No.1820435
>>1820425Rosa was well aware of that.
>Concretely, after the fall of tsarism, power will pass into the hands of the most revolutionary part of society, the proletariat, because the proletariat will take possession of all posts and keep watch over them until power is placed in the hands of those legally called upon to hold it – in the hands of the new government, which the Constituent [Assembly], as the legislative organ elected by the whole population, is alone able to determine. Now, it is a simple fact that it is not the proletariat that constitutes a majority in society, but the petty bourgeoisie and the peasantry, and that, as a consequence, it will not be the social democrats who form a majority in the Constituent, but the democratic peasants and petty bourgeois. We may lament this fact, but we will not be able to change it. No.1820437
>>1820414oh and
>it's been the only wave of socialist revolutions in history…<ignoring class struggleeven bourgeois revolutions spread
im not saying "ITS TOTALLY GONNA HAPPEN GUISE", but the larger the better ya know?
No.1820438
>>1820425>isnt the majority of any countryit is in western nations i think. no national question to resolve, full crystallized relationships with the state, no democratic-bourgeois tasks to undertake
No.1820439
>>1820438I'm not one of those stupid "third-worldists" but I think western nations are the worst example. Most people there aren't reserveless proletarians these days.
No.1820441
>>1820433Absolutely. Nationalists always side with porkies in the end and without these useful idiots porkies would be powerless.
No.1820442
>
The basic error of the Lenin-Trotsky theory is that they too, just like Kautsky, oppose dictatorship to democracy. “Dictatorship or democracy” is the way the question is put by Bolsheviks and Kautsky alike. The latter naturally decides in favor of “democracy,” that is, of bourgeois democracy, precisely because he opposes it to the alternative of the socialist revolution. Lenin and Trotsky, on the other hand, decide in favor of dictatorship in contradistinction to democracy, and thereby, in favor of the dictatorship of a handful of persons, that is, in favor of dictatorship on the bourgeois model. U
No.1820443
>>1820439youre not the first westerner who says this to me. which class constitutes the majority of the population?
the party i joined characterized my countrys working class but im curious about your opinion
No.1820444
>>1820441even if they didnt side with porkies natlib is ultimately just the national bourgeoisie trying to capture a larger share of global capital
No.1820450
>>1820441proles are decidedly much less nationalist, castist, etc as it is than other sections of society owing to their collective, homogeneous exclusion from any benefits under the present system
>>1820444nta but a prole is someone whose life and death depends on the immediate demand for their labor power, meaning they are thrown into the streets to starve on losing their job. a doctor, engineer or other white collar does not meet this criterion, ergo they are not proletarians, and this class is the majority of what gets called western nations today
No.1820451
>>1820441Well, here we have it: Cosmopolitans inevitably leading back to chauvinism. And you also seem to think that self-determination = bourgeois republic, as if having independent socialist republics is impossible.
No.1820454
>>1820444The only way to organize the masses of poor people to defend the property of a tiny rich minority is by appealing to nationalism, tradition, religion and other idpol spooks. Nationalists have killed millions of communists and they should be treated as enemies or at most useful idiots to be dealt with later.
No.1820455
>>1820451>as if having independent socialist republics is impossible.whos gonna tell him?
No.1820456
>>1820451>cosmopolitan chauvinismAbsolute state
No.1820457
>>1820450>doctor, engineer or other white collar does not meet this criterion, ergo they are not proletarianscall them petite-bourgeois or liberal professionals if you want, but they still subsist on their own labour, even if its specialized and intellectual
in fact these kinds of people can be wooed by fascism so its important to agitate towards them and help them organize. besides they have sufficient free time and income to dedicate themselves to intellectual tasks. remember that people like lenin or castro werent proletariats
No.1820459
>>1820454leftists here have been doing it for decades and it doesnt work, its too easy for the bourgeois to co-opt that cheap rhetoric
No.1820460
>>1820455All of them turned their backs on socialism to have their own nationalist states.
No.1820469
>>1820457the proletariat shouldnt cater to the petit bourgeois though. you said it yourself, the decline of middle class reserves does not immediately turn them into a pillar of support for communism, but just the opposite, ie, into enemies of the proletariat seeking to recruit workers for their own causes to stay afloat. hence for all purposes they must be separated. a skilled technician isnt jumping the fence over to the proletariat even when periods of stagnation make them lose their reserves, rather owing to their long inculcation of petit bourgeois mentality, they will at first always strive to attain their former higher status
No.1820471
>>1820455>>1820456Show me one example of multinational states working out. Even Lenin admitted independent nation states are better developed than multinational ones
>The example of the Balkan states likewise contradicts her, for anyone can now see that the best conditions for the development of capitalism in the Balkans are created precisely in proportion to the creation of independent national states in that peninsula.>Therefore, Rosa Luxemburg notwithstanding, the example of the whole of progressive and civilised mankind, the example of the Balkans and that of Asia prove that Kautsky's proposition is absolutely correct: the national state is the rule and the "norm" of capitalism; the multi-national state represents backwardness, or is an exception. From the standpoint of national relations, the best conditions for the development of capitalism are undoubtedly provided by the national state. This does not mean, of course, that such a state, which is based on bourgeois relations, can eliminate the exploitation and oppression of nations. It only means that Marxists cannot lose sight of the powerful economic factors that give rise to the urge to create national states. It means that "self-determination of nations" in the Marxists' Programme cannot, from a historico-economic point of view, have any other meaning than political self-determination, state independence, and the formation of a national state.Another question: Show me a successful socialist revolution without being pro self-determination.
No.1820475
>>1820469>the proletariat shouldnt cater to the petit bourgeois thoughthey shouldnt, but the petit-bourgeois kinda end up sowing the seeds of revolutionary events
>>1820471DAMN why was he such a good writer bros?
No.1820495
>>1820325Statues of Rosa should be build in post USSR russia and used as a entryst gate to the security forces (although who will coopt who is the question)
No.1820576
>>1820493So you want to go back to feudalism and colonial era policies? What happened to the whole "Capitalism is progressive compared to feudalism" thing?
No.1820581
>>1820576Marxism machine broke
No.1820594
>>1820450>meaning they are thrown into the streets to starve on losing their job.That's not in the definition lol. Especially when this proles become labour aristocrats via trade unions.
No.1820596
>>1820471>one example of multinational states working outUnited States of America :^).
and China No.1820598
>>1820594>>1820450The latin meaning of proletariat is those who bear children. Marx uses it to mean the class which self-reproduces itself through capitalist conditions (by having children). Workers. "Aristocrats of labour" was a term invented by engels i believe, that just described the highest paid proles. Lenin takes a more systematic criticism of trade union consciousness and imperialism obviously.
The melodrama about westerners being on the verge of death is extremely dogmatic nonsense.
No.1820605
>>1820598My point is that the marxist definition of proletariat is solely dependent on whether they do not have access to the means of production and have to sell their labour to be allowed access.
No.1820612
>>1820605Sounds like more dogmatism
What does having "access" to means of production mean exactly? If i work as a sandwhich maker at subway, what access am i receiving?
Maybe the truth is that in marx's time he was analysing the industrial workers of manchester in the 19th century, and didnt generalise his theories of revolution to the working class as a whole.
Ive worked in a warehouse before and i didnt make anything, i just moved boxes to trucks, or put boxes on assembly lines. Most of our stuff gets made in china or the third-world.
I think youre being antiquated by trying to find a materialist definition of the proletariat. There is no international proletariat; the division of labour has spread very far.
No.1820647
>>1820493This but unironically
No.1820666
>>1820605the marxist definition of proletarian is more complex than that as showed in the thread
No.1820693
>>1820493Go back to daycare. Soviet ethnic policy has proven itself correct in practice.
No.1820812
>>1820768Then they can just hire scabs, or automate
Striking only works for local or small or necessary businesses
No.1820818
>>1820314rosa was a Agent Kochinskiist then
No.1821071
>>1820812The climax of the class war, as conceived by the Syndicalists, is the "general strike." Having sufficiently demoralized industry by a long process of "direct action" and having converted enough of the workers for
their purpose, the Syndicalists will call the general strike. Before leaving the factories the workers will destroy the machinery by wholesale sabotage; the railways and other forms of transport will hkewise be ruined; and economic life will thus be completely paralyzed. The result will be chaos, which will give the Syndicalists their opportunity. In that hour the organized Syndicalist minority, leading the frenzied, starying masses, and
aided by criminals and other antisocial elements, will overthrow the social order, seize all property, crush the
bourgeoisie, and establish the social revolution.
No.1821076
>>1820818Good thing Agent Kochinski never heard of her or else he'd do a tactical misogyny about it.
No.1821087
>>1821071Based
I agree bro. Syndicalism is the true (national) socialism. Sorel was right when he understood that the workers' movement is about freedom itself, not communism. Lenin criticises trade union consciousness because its "uncritical", but the vanguardists are just intellectuals fighting for their own invisible hand, when the real movement happens in the streets, drenched in the blood of oppressors. There is no theory when praxis becomes something given to itself. Give knives and guns to all men and lead a march to the homes of the powerful. Open the prisons like in the storming of bastille. Kill the lords and start anew, if anything must be done. And if anything more, mote it be.
No.1821090
>>1820033>if she hadn't been murdered by fascistsShe was killed by the Weimar Republic tho.
No.1821107
>>1821104Don't fall for the fascist tactic of normalizing them by overusing the term.
No.1821132
>muh anarchisterinossss
Posting the poem every time a sectarian thread is made
A rightoid finds himself being bored
He takes to an obscure left wing board
Low effort thread, obvious bait
"Is coffe bad? I think it is great!"
"No it is not". Libsocs all hop.
Unless it was made in a co-op!
"Or sourced from Russia", the Ziggers all chime
Eager to prevent a new NATO crime
The dengoid enters the thread once again
Tho show the anarkiddies his 5 year plan
For achieving socialism in the far east
"Trust me it's hapooning, two more weeks!"
The trot inerrupts him, he wants to be first
To find himself the one being cursed!
The tankie just woke, from his US bed
"Muh cia muh ukraine! Icepick to the head!"
But its the mautist who who has the most scorn
Opening his folder with alunya cuck porn
"Cope and seethe!"He says with a sigh
The sparrows and mice! Billions must die!
The anarchist recoils with pain and then shock
Seeing his mascot impaled on a cock!
It doesn't stop there the autism spreads
The illegalist enters, "schizo take meds!"
The thread then gets saged by the mods
Moved to siberia, away from gods
Shay posts about cum, in a thread now silent
In a patent backed by fauci and science!
The feds pack up, as do most
I wonder why anyone bothers to post?
No.1821146
>>1820612>>1820612>what access am i receiving?Access to oven and the equipment needed to make the sandwhich moron.
>Ive worked in a warehouse before and i didnt make anything, i just moved boxes to trucks, or put boxes on assembly lines. Most of our stuff gets made in china or the third-world.Yea and you are using your labour to transport the goods from one place to another. You are intentionally being obtuse till you only hear the answer you want to hear.
No.1821151
>>1821087>Lenin criticises trade union consciousness because its "uncritical", but the vanguardists are just intellectuals fighting for their own invisible handThe work is
What Is to Be Done?Lenin makes it Solidarność style, trade unions are thought to be strike comitees and provide own elections, forming parliament of its own
No.1821159
>>1820433your brain on bourgeois nationalism:
No.1821168
>>1821087>Give knives and guns to all men and lead a march to the homes of the powerful. Open the prisons like in the storming of bastille. Kill the lords and start anew, if anything must be done. And if anything more, mote it be.This is the inly part of fascism that I ever liked. The no bullshit expression of anger and hatred. In leftism everything is about having a theory an analysis and following "conditions" lile a machine. Don't get me wrong ill always be a leftist but the mainstream left just doesn't have this collectivist yet individualist zeitgeist. The O9A would have been gigabased if they werent pedophiles and rapists and focused their eneegy on the objects of power.
No.1821170
>>1821146Okay and i cant be an artisan sandwhich maker at home then? I'm forced to be proletarianised?
My point is that the economy is largely contrived out of other factors besides dependence on gaining access to "means of production"; lettuce and ranch sauce in this case.
>>1821154Reported for doxxing me
No.1821172
>>1821168the left already had its decade of schizo-fueled violence during the 70s and it was a complete motherfucking disaster
>>1821170>I-I-I'm forced to be proletarianised?YES
No.1821180
>>1821170>Okay and i cant be an artisan sandwhich maker at home then?Are you making sandwhiches to earn a profit?
>My point is that the economy is largely contrived out of other factors besides dependence on gaining access to "means of production"; lettuce and ranch sauce in this case.Idgaf, I am trying to pin down the definition of proletariat to an obtuse retard.
No.1821181
>>1821168>The O9A would have been gigabased if they werent pedophiles and rapists and focused their eneegy on the objects of power.When you play with fire you get burned.
I call it the curse of the black sun.
>>1821172>YESNope 😏
No.1821184
>>1821180Im making sandwhiches to consoom, which is the social relation of subway. One guy makes food and another eats it.
>Idgaf, I am trying to pin down the definition of proletariat to an obtuse retard.Yeah and i already blew it apart
Thats why "working class" or "the poor" or "the people" captures the socialist spirit more authentically, and this has coincidentally been where rightists have been successful populists, and where leftists likr you scramble for a scientific socialist definition.
No.1821186
>>1821184>Im making sandwhiches to consoom, which is the social relation of subway. One guy makes food and another eats it.So it is apples to oranges then.
>Yeah and i already blew it apartAsking stupid and nonsensical questions is not blowing it apart.
>scramble for a scientific socialist definition.So what? Leftist social and welfare policies (that rightists often steal) do work precisely because it comes from a scientific socialist framework.
No.1821197
>>1821186>So it is apples to oranges then.Dialectically, the "being" of a thing is in its qualitative distinction from common quantitative conditions. Apples and oranges are both fruit, but in themselves, they are totally different.
I see subway and see an irrelevant and useless mode of production, while you see the economy in your materialist perspective as something inherently rational, where everything is about profit and efficiency (this is another link between liberals and communists).
>Leftist social and welfare policies (that rightists often steal) do work precisely because it comes from a scientific socialist framework.Sure, we steal from you, but you cant steal our nationalistic sentiments, which is why you can capture the "proletariat", but youll never capture the "people". Again, quantitative vs qualitative concepts.
No.1821203
>>1820471>Show me one example of multinational states working out. Literally EVERY SINGLE POWERFUL EMPIRE IN HISTORY has been multinational you complete dumbfuck. To argue otherwise is to out yourself as an illiterate.
Even the right wing retards who worship the Roman Empire and Greek statues understand this.
No.1821206
>>1820693>Soviet ethnic policyYou mean allowing for secession and separatist and national movements and outright encouraging splits by forcing new languages onto people (example: Ukrainian) thereby fatally undermining unity from the very beginning?
Sounds utterly retarded. Defend your position using logic and historical examples. Oh wait you can't.
No.1821208
>>1821181honestly we dont care about your shitty little store. macroeconomy isnt run by shitty little stores either
>>1821184*I* *I* *I*
enough with this petite bourgeois self-centered spiel. go join the libertarian party or something
>Yeah and i already blew it apartthe econimal everyone
>Thats why "working class" or "the poor" or "the people" captures the socialist spirit more authenticallysuit yourself but it really doesnt. theyre nebulous and imprecise terms
>>1821197>(this is another link between liberals and communists)another banger from fascists. people who believe in magic want to lecture others on "the REAL world" now smh
>Sure, we steal from you, but you cant steal our nationalistic sentimentsgoing full schizo now
>which is why you can capture the "proletariat", but youll never capture the "people"who is the "people"?
No.1821215
>>1821197Spare me your fascist mambo-jumbo. I accept your admission that you have been asking pointless questions.
>Sure, we steal from you, but you cant steal our nationalistic sentimentsNor should we? Nation is a spook anyway. Capturing the 'people' is pointless because that is not what is needed to overthrow capitalism and implement socialism.
No.1821247
>>1821208>theyre nebulous and imprecise termsYeah thats the point. Its qualitative.
>who is the "people"?The people is the people. If you dont get it you dont get it.
>>1821215>Capturing the 'people' is pointless because that is not what is needed to overthrow capitalism and implement socialism.Sure
No.1821270
Modern day proletariat are retail workers as they are the majority of labourers and are harshly expoitated. But it is silly to say they would seize means of production meaning they will hold actual groceries.
After the Industrial Revolution (1750–1850), by the mid-19th century the great expansion of the bourgeoisie social class caused its stratification – by business activity and by economic function – into the haute bourgeoisie (bankers and industrialists) and the petite bourgeoisie (tradesmen and white-collar workers).[2] Moreover, by the end of the 19th century, the capitalists (the original bourgeoisie) had ascended to the upper class, while the developments of technology and technical occupations allowed the rise of working-class men and women to the lower strata of the bourgeoisie; yet the social progress was incidental.
So it's bankers and industrialists who run the society and revolution target, but it's inevitable that the poor will try to seize the riches' (middle class) property and wealth either.
No.1821288
>>1821168the only reason fascists were able to ever get away with that shit is because those angry mobs were deputized by the bourgeois and their police lackeys. the idea of some populist fascist uprising is a fucking myth, its a part of the legitimizing ideology of fascist movements sure, but without having elements of a divided ruling class on your side that kind of mob violence is swiftly crushed by cops. childish fantasy from people who want to pretend they dont kowtow to power whenever it matters, even though their entire ideology is about finding permission to indulge infantile sadism
i fucking hate fascoids
No.1821291
>>1820693I hope this is bait.
No.1821484
>>1821270>But it is silly to say they would seize means of production meaning they will hold actual groceries.Why not?
No.1821501
>>1821270>But it is silly to say they would seize means of production meaning they will hold actual groceries.how about seize the supermarkets and warehouses and entire food distribution network? hurr durr.
No.1821568
>>1821112Bro, you can misuse the terms for propagandistic effect when trying to manipulate normies, but please keep the term retardation to a minimum here. Why would you even try to deliberately misinform people here?
No.1838154
>>1838153It's super disappointing to see groups that have had an intransigent position against nationalism for many years now suddenly slip into defencism tbh.
No.1838160
>>1838154Russophobia and liberalism is one hell of a drug.
No.1838194
>>1820295The reality of the situation forced Lenin to retreat from a lot of his written convictions (e.g. all power to the soviets), so it's silly to take for granted that were Rosa in his place she would definitely adhere to the things she wrote.
No.1838592
>>1838194we know that Rosa herself no longer agreed with everything she'd written in that book by the end of her life. what we don't know for sure is which parts she did or didn't plan to rewrite. all we have is a manuscript capturing a snapshot of her views at one point
No.1839436
The famed Iron Felix Dzerzhinsky greatly admired Rosa Luxemburg.
No.1839439
there is nothing wrong with nationalism.
socialism can only be national(nazism)
No.1839442
>>1821270>Modern day proletariat are retail workers as they are the majority of labourers and are harshly expoitated.Please look outside the deindustrialized first world
No.1839446
>>1820033 my favourite Rosa trivia is that she thought the German Revolution was premature and spoke out against the notion, which we know from history to have been correct, but she's held up as a martyr as though the revolution was her idea and would've worked if it hadn't'a'been for the mean old SPD. communists can skip the awkward reflection on their foolhardy adventurism - no no, that was quite proper - our real mistake was that we didn't hate the socdems enough. well, we shan't make THAT mistake again.
No.1839449
>>1839439everybody says that until it's their turn to die meaninglessly for a forever war
No.1839464
Workers movement lacks civilian protest (due to the belief it is a bernsteinian thing) and civilian protest (an actual one), usually organised by an interest group, is basically seen by this group as a "performance", not a poilitical action. Theoretically, imagine that nothing has changed since 1917, consider opposition coordination into a council body, elect your representatives, make the name sound worker connected - you have just invented soviets in russia
No.1840264
>>1821168>would have been gigabased if they werent pedophiles and rapiststhat's a pretty huge "if" don'tcha think, namefag?
No.1843086
genocide is not a unique appearance of capitalist society but a product of imperialist war in an of itself,
to oppose genocide on all terms is not to push nationalist ideology (from which genocide is birthed) but instead to demand an end to the capitalist system>>1839439as luxemburg said, wars are never only national in the modern day, they are always bourgeois-imperialistic. hamas and the PLO represent a palestinian bourgeoisie and israel represents the israeli bourgeoisie. both sides demand blood for nationalist construction and are helped and funded by competing bourgeois interests too
no national group has a right to any land, that is nationalistic thinking. all people ought to hold land in common, there is no birthright to anywhere
No.1843089
>>1839439Capitalism is global, socialism must also follow.
No.1843100
>>1843089uyghas really believe a fractured proletariat has any chance against the bourgeoisie
No.1843516
>>1843086>genocide is not a unique appearance of capitalist society but a product of imperialist war in an of itselfgenocide has existed since humanity was multiple species
>giflet her cook
No.1844715
>>1821168>The O9A would have been gigabased if they werent pedophiles and rapists and focused their eneegy on the objects of power.And nuclear bombs would be based if they weren't deadly weapons.
It's not some mere coincidence they are the way they are. It's their own explicit doctrine of being antisocial and transgressive. And this expands beyond O9A and even esoteric hitlerist movements. The neo-Nazi movement openly glorifies sadistic destruction and horror, so it's going to continue attracting those people.
>In leftism everything is about having a theory an analysis and following "conditions" lile a machine. At the end of the day, our main goal is to succeed. If we could win by just shooting kings and yelling in the streets, it would have already worked.
No.1844729
>>1843089you best start believin' in world systems miss turner
No.1844825
>>1844719to think these are the same people who denounce that gays are conspiring to groom children
No.1844827
>>1844825>They're COMING for your VULNERABLE CHILDRENThis is the kind of language that pulls on the heart strings of people and makes them forget about all rational thought, it doesn't really matter what children experience or whatever.
No.1844840
>>1820033The individual, state and event you talk about are all long dead.
Why do you care?
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