No.26086
k bye
No.26087
This post should have been made a month ago, but as I said, I'm so dispassionate and busy that I didn't bother announcing it. I wrote some of this beforehand so ignore any issues with past/present tense.
It's embarrassing that I have to say this, but if this thread is censored, you know which /meta/ board to go to. I don't use the site, there are major problems with it too, but at least I can be confident critical discussions won't get deleted there.
Don't bother with any direct messages. I won't be logging into Matrix, and I haven't for over a month. If you have something worth telling me, say it publicly.
Why?
As I said, there are a few factors that contributed to this. More real-life obligations, more useful projects to work on, but most of all, I'm sick of pretending this site has a good future, and even if I did stay on the staff to delete raid-posts I have evidently lost all motivation and hope for improvement.
As is tradition, here's the obligatory manifesto:
Contradictions, and why they won't be resolved
Looking at the history of /leftypol/, it's very easy to get a general sense of why it came into existence, what made it unique among other sites, and why it attracted users. Unsurprisingly, there are similarities with those of mid-2010s /pol/, as well as many differences.
While /leftypol/ was always dominated by a broad range of socialist and anarchist tendencies, it was also frequented by the larger 8chan userbase. It was common to see succdems, lolberts, burgerbrains, brownpants, blacksharts and everyone in-between and around. There were even notsocs who declared their home to be /leftypol/ because we could actually hold an intelligent conversation, unlike their comrades on /pol/. As an aside, it makes me laugh whenever a newfag reports someone just for posting the nazi flag. Why do you think it's there? Why do you think we have two different ancap flags? Why do you think we have a brocialist flag? A democrap flag? These reports happen more than you'd think.
The rules of this site are (even still) extremely clear on this. They even go out of their way to emphasize reactionaries are allowed, so long as they are capable of having a conversation.
/leftypol/ is not a safe space.
/leftypol/ was never a safe space.
And this is not some freeze peach tantrum, but rather it is a fundamental part of the site's purpose, service and appeal. Without this characteristic, leftypol.org has no future.
Here was a place you get exposed to a gamut of opinions, the good, the bad and the insane. Laughing at shit opinions is a core part of /leftypol/, just look at which posts people decided deserved to be archived in the booru. In fact, I've found many of the most educational and high-quality threads come out of shit takes and crazy OPs. And if not that, the most entertaining, the ones that have the power to develop culture and bring in users. This board was fueled by, as one new moderator put it, 'guided chaos'. Quite frankly, removing all the reactionaries, all the liberals, all the people who have a different understanding of your favourite inter-imperial war, all the people who have different takes on arbitrary idpol crap, and anyone else who a mod thought was too annoying, has made this place more and more a sterile echo-chamber. Variety and chaos is what separated this site from USSC boards, from socialist/anarchist subreddits, from sectarian chatrooms, from real life organizations. Letting people with different opinions say dumb shit was entertaining but also provoked meaningful original discussion. The board wasn't arbitratily called Leftist Politically Incorrect. That was its value. We won't kick you out for voicing a problematic opinion, asking a naïve question, quoting Marx's worst hits, saying you want to politicide liberals with anti-air guns, pretending to be NAZBOL GANG, any of that. You don't have to be correct to be here.
/leftypol/ is differentiated by this. There are literally hundreds of other active sites, even other imageboards, for socialists and anarchists. By removing the diversity and atmosphere that makes us different, we might as well be redundant. We're not exactly popular anymore, so being redundant is enough to kill us.
Unfortunately, many of the mods, and more importantly the most active and stubbourn mods, consistently and egregiously contradict this site's primary defining feature, and most of those who don't are either complacent or inactive. This combination means there is no method of accountability when a mod contradicts the rules. In fact, the closest we got to any semblance of accountability since the coup attempt, I was talked out of persuing because we needed as many staff as possible online to remove gore and other shock images spammed for hours a day by a mentally-deranged leftychan now-janny for the first 3 months. It's ironic, their pathetic obsession with crying about a staff member doing the right thing actually stopped them from getting punished when the moderator messed up hard. And I see blatant contradictions almost every day in the public log and /meta/, such as the most active mods regularly banning posts that didn't violate a single rule and weren't even something trollish or reactionary, it's simply an opinion they thought was too bad. Whether they're fit to be moderators anywhere depends on which one you're talking about, but they certainly shouldn't be moderators on /leftypol/. They want this place to be something else, like /GET/ or various subreddits, where you don't have to deal with the stuff they're deleting. Some of them already use those sites! So it puzzles me why they persure the futile Sisyphean torture of deleting politically incorrectness from a site advertising itself as Leftist Politically Incorrect. And look, if their claim is correct, that Leftypol has an identity crisis and no longer wants /leftypol/ to be /leftypol/, then it's idiotic to keep the name. It's an explicit invitation of the people they've shown that they don't want. It's an anchor to the same past that they want gone.
It's not just many hundreds of cases of moderator abuse. It's not as if this is just incidental errors. It's also the attitudes they hold. Some, especially vwobbly and pasquale, are openly hostile to feedback from users. Even recently I've seen them laugh at and ignore honest complaints in /meta/, lie about not being a moderator when arguing with other posters, say they will support a policy just to hear people complain, or embrace a perception that moderators are a privilieged in-group that should intentionally ignore the complaints of any [other] users. Reasonable complaints only seem to be given respect if I reiterate them in the staff room, and even then they are just rationalized away or given a 'it won't happen again', until it does a week or two later.
Then comes the complancency from other mods. I sympathise with that, it's how I felt at the time of the last coup and for a long time afterwards. There's no ill will here, after two coups killing a large part of the site and causing far too much nonsense drama, it's normal to just want stability. Unfortunately, we're on a stable path to preventable death. It's a paralysis that stops us changing what needs to be changed, having conversations that need to be had. Raising a fuss over persistent mod abuse is seen as over-reacting or something that should be rationalized away. So I'm not holding out for any resistance from 'good cops'. And there are some, so I want them to know I am honestly sad to abandon them.
And finally there is an admin who, last time they saw drama in the staff (April 2021), resigned instead of booting the obvious troublemaker Zul. So there's no expectation of any top-down action to fix this slow crisis.
That's the summary. A few of out-of-place mods are removing /leftypol/ from /leftypol/, the rest of us won't do anything about it for the sake of stability. I'm sick of being one of the only staff raising user concerns to the mod team. The system doesn't work. /meta/ is a fucking disgrace every single time I look at it. The only people worse than the mods are a couple of ban-evading drama schizos.
PS: I want to let pask know that I stopped reading your private messages when you asked me where I lived. Fuck you.
PPS: Caballo gets an exaggerated bad rep. They are one of the few mods remaining after the coup who actually gave a fuck about the users, similarly to Coma. They might not forgive me for saying this, but it's a shame they became enemies. PPPS: Props to anti (^_^)
I will probably continue to post on occasion, and it's nice to see my legacy reflected in reposts and site culture regardless of my feelings about the gentrified, illiterate mess this place is becoming.
No.26088
To preempt the inevitable question, I am not endorsing leftychan either. I regularly admit that I don't even use the place, but I might as well take the opportunity to explain my main issues with them. Who knows, maybe they still have a chance to fix themselves.
0) The site's formation was a bad joke. Zul and Watermelon put their personality disorders on full display, and in the spur of the moment, seized the site. For some details on how much of a clusterfuck it was, read the summary article at
https://unitedchans.fandom.com/wiki/2021_Leftypol_coup_attempt?oldid=6125 - While this is just history, and on its own can be ignored, it led to the site being populated mostly just by people banned from leftypol.org/b/, which naturally gives it a primary userbase of edgelords and obsessives who spent too much time caring about leftypol.org drama rather than building their own site.
1) leftychan's identity is basically just disliking leftypol.org, not helped by the more active users spending literally, yes literally, over six hours a day, daily, for months, posting scat and gore and abuse images on /leftypol/ and crying in /meta/ when they're banned for it and thinking anyone is dumb enough to fall for it. All they accomplished was driving people away from both sites and building animosity towards leftychan from their main potential source of users.
If that time had been spent making leftychan a site with better content and better community, it could have been thriving by now. And it's not like banning the losers is going to happen because the main guy doing that, an insane obsessive schizo as unstable as the worst leftypol.org mods combined, got added to their staff. With them and Watermelon, I'm not touching their staff-room even with a ten-metre pole.
2) It doesn't diverge enough to avoid just being resigned to being leftypol.org's shadow. Sure, the theme is a little older, sure there's board sprawl for better and worse
mostly worse, even leftypol.org has far too many boards for our declined userbase, let alone leftychan almost having more boards than users, sure they extended the site to host other services like Matrix and Pleroma
props!, but at the end of the day, its main place just seems to be a bitchy little sister, that can only draw users from here. It could have been more, and I'm a bit disappointed its only semblence of vision is nostalgia.
That said, there are many things they are doing right, and a few of their issues are hard to blame them for (when you have so few users, and so many are counter-social, your options are limited). But unless they change attitude, they will just fade further into obscurity faster than leftypol.org. Leftychan needs to let go of the past to move create a future, and I honestly don't know if they will.
—
Anyway, with that out of the way, you can use this thread ask a (former) leftypol dev/mod anything. I won't indulge anything personal, sensitive or security-related; if I had any intention of doing that I would have already done it and sabotaged the site.
I now realize the unfortunate date, so have a theme rofl No.26089
>Ctrl+F my name
>only once
I am disappointed
Anyway you aren't gonna shoot up a place, are ya?
Meh I don't care.
No.26091
>>26090You, I like. We can make the place better, no problem. All you have to do is try. I like anyone that applies themselves.
No.26092
I think he/they has held everyone back. Now, we can move forward.
No.26093
not an airport lounge
No.26094
Messiah complex fucking faggot
Why do you try to diagnose everyone but never once did it occur to you to turn your pathetic diagnostic skills inward?
No.26095
I am gonna say I am a little astonished. Just a little bit. You'd rather rewrite the site instead of having a conversation like people. Who is stubborn?
No.26096
So uh, I assume this means you'll find another sysop to fill your position before leaving, right? Certainly can't resolve the issues if the site isn't running.
No.26097
>>26096I don't think he managed to get that far into the idea, in actuality
No.26098
>>26096There is a new sysop, and the site isn't in danger of just collapsing, so it's nothing catastrophic to be worried about. If I wanted to kill the site, I would have just nuked it.
>>26097For someone who 'doesn't care', 7 replies and a Rule 4 violation is impressive.
No.26099
>>26098You could say contradictory
Asshat
No.26103
>>26098Ah okie 👍
Hope to see you around then, hopefully a resolution to this dilemma can be found, though I'm not smart enough to think of one yet.
No.26107
>>26087>I want to let pask know that I stopped reading your private messages when you asked me where I lived. Fuck you.Lol.
No.26108
>>26107Yeah well, disco is like Jar-Jar, if we can get him working, we'll have a funnier character then we've ever had.
No.26109
I think about people like you all the time. The people who work behind the scenes on a volunteer basis on projects like this and on open source projects. I've learned a lot through the effort that people like you have packaged and sent into the zeitgeist, while somehow being entertained, so thanks. The burnout from dealing with interpersonal stuff is real and something that political orgs have been trying to deal with from the start. Take some time and come back.
No.26111
i got banned under 2 weeks ago i think by pask and the only reason was "insane" or something similar. The highlighted post wasn't even that bad I think I just insulted rednecks and praised American NazBol theory. Very clearly a joke and not even using slurs etc. (and mind you I think it was in siberia). Anyway just wanted to rant about that. Sorry to see you go fella
No.26112
>>26086Could you be a bigger faggot pasque?
No.26113
>>26085If pask and wvobbly quit or were kicked out of the mod team would you consider coming back?
No.26114
>>26112Well, yes. If he doesn't wanna play, what is there to do. Let's just do it Thunderdome-style, two "men" enter, one man leaves.
No.26116
P.S: I don't have anything against you discomrade. It was fun while it lasted and I wish you the best of luck.
No.26117
>>26113I know I mentioned those two by name but this isn't personally about them, or limited to them. In fact, vwobbly is often a nice guy and if we were on another, more narrow-scope website where this issue wouldn't arise, we'd probably be getting along alright.
From past experience (two years of it), and from looking at how they receive feedback, I don't think either of them is willing to change and begin moderating in a way which will allow the site to thrive. They think they're doing the right thing, despite many threads next-door making it clear they they are pushing many, many users away over ideological or personal disagreements. Since this is volunteer work and since the current staff room is consciously opposed to drama, I doubt forcing them to follow the rules (which would require the kind of thing which hasn't been done since early 2021) will happen.
If that's all correct, them leaving would be 'taking the knife out' of this site, or at least most of it. Necessary for the healing process, but my gripe isn't about them personally. It's about
why they're here,
why people like them will be able to join and do the same thing or worse. If hypothetically those two just got hit by a bus tomorrow, the problems aren't solved.
So, 'yes but it would depend on why they left'.
>>26103Heh, me either mate.
It's a slow decline, and without a catalyst, most people will barely notice or not want to jump. And the mod team will see no reason for radical change of course. It's tough to find a solution to that, even harder without being a huge dick to people who are just here to post, or having hours a day to start some project.
>>26109Oh yeah, look, jannies cop a lot of shit, both deserved and undeserved, but there is serious time and effort put in to any imageboard which isn't covered in child porn ads and /pol/ spam. Seriously, if you use any smaller boards, they are going through some serious bullshit and deserve something nice. Same here, but at least it's split across a dozen people. If you've only used bigger sites like this, you're sheltered.
Showing appreciation goes a long way when you're working with volunteers. This goes for devs, mods doing good things, OC makers, effort posters, all that. We'd still be doing all this without the thanks, but it really does help to know people like what you're doing, reduces burnout, and it makes me know I'm making decisions the community actually wanted.
But even moreso with software projects. Look at Hotwheels and vichan, they're
desperate for maintainers, stuck between knowing thousands of people are using vichan imageboards and not having the time or desire to maintain it.
And of course the same goes with IRL orgs which require even more time and effort. Ideally, the best thing to do to reduce burnout is to take a bit of their load.
>I've learned a lot through the effort that people like you have packaged and sent into the zeitgeist, while somehow being entertained, so thanks.You're welcome, I'm glad to hear it :)
>>26111I haven't looked at the mod log for a month, but I complained about,
literally, verbatim, that exact thing in the last mod meeting I was in a couple of months ago, and took technical steps like pre-filled ban reasons to try and reduce bullshit nonsense ban reasons.
When I say I think nothing will change with them, this is why. I raise a complaint, I explain why this is horrible for users, I explain why this is horrible for whoever decides to accept or decline the appeal, I explain why this isn't even supposed to be a reason to ban people on this site anyway. It doesn't matter how many other people agree. The next week, they're still pulling this shit.
I'm sorry Caballo, the remedy isn't improving the rules or constitution.
They don't give a fuck about them. They're already well beyond the rules. Look at the mod log, at any given time it's filled with meaningless garbage. Look at /meta/ and it's filled with people saying 'why was I banned? what did I do wrong' and pask saying 'lol didn't read'. I mean, seriously, look at this shit:
>>26080 . That was minutes before I made this thread.
>>26116Same mate, it was a blast. I'll make sure to check in some time, until then I wish you all the best.
No.26120
I'd rather not put up with retarded reactionary posts that add nothing or blatant astroturfing. They add nothing and are not funny. But thanks for sharing your opinion I guess.
No.26121
>>26120>I'd rather not put up with retarded reactionary posts that add nothing or blatant astroturfingI don't either. I'm not talking about those. Like I said, it's not a freeze peach tantrum.
I'm complaining about both reactionary posts which
do add something, and entirely non-reactionary posts which do add something but consistently get deleted because one person didn't like them.
If the first one is surprising, well, /leftypol/ may not be the place for you. And that's ok.
No.26122
>>26121It's inevitable that the people with the most shit opinions and an agenda find their way into positions of power. That's the way of the world. Normal people are too busy enjoying their lives to be bothered with that shit.
No.26123
Fuck dude you were one of the main people who would actually communicate with people who had complaints
No.26124
>>26121Oh my god that is inspired! What sauce! Get in! Just do a better job.
Most people aren't wrong and offensive in an interesting way, they are wrong and offensive in the most uninteresting way.
>>26122This
No.26125
>>26085Sorry to see you go.
No.26126
>>26122I see your point but I insist it's not inevitable, especially when we're talking about niche communities and internet infrastructure (the person who pays for infrastructure can kick any account off at will and can BDFL).
I do think there is a bias when recruiting staff. People who think the current moderation is inadequate are typically the most motivated to join, leading to increasingly tighter moderation until people leave. If you think everything is alright, and the direction of the site is fine, why join? (Well, this is why. This, and raids.)
>>26123Yeah it sucks. At some point, I'm forced to realize I'm just placating. I confirm "yes this post isn't against the rules" and someone else goes and bans them because they thought the thread was dumb. I investigate (because the ban reason was irrelevant or meaningless) and appeal a nonsense ban and it happens again the next week. I confront other mods over bad practices and nothing changes. I say we should have interesting threads in /leftypol/ and then someone moves them to /siberia/ to die despite them being completely on topic and well-received where they were posted.
I can only think of 2 or 3 mods left who have the basic decency to do their job, and, well, one of them is as hopelessly optimistic as me.
I suppose there is a bit of hope that someone[s?] apparently told pasquale to stop constantly being an outright troll on /meta/, because they're publicly decrying it in the next thread down. If any moderator thinks I'm being unduly harsh, scroll through the /meta/ thread and pretend you're the person asking the questions. It's revolting to see how sincere questions are being treated (and since they ban the most people, they're answering, or not answering, most questions), and it's not surprising many of them are evidently just leaving. That shit I'd expect from Bee on a bad day, not a moderator in charge of any community. It's not alright. It's hurting the site.
>>26125Yeah, hang in there. It's good to know there are still people like you who care about the people here.
No.26127
>>26115> If you guys could get over yourselves and stop letting your jannies get away with banning people over avatar fagging their fursonaI’m failing to see how this is a bad thing lmao
No.26128
>>26126I don't want to be in charge. Take it. But you'd have to actually apply yourself a bit.
No.26130
I would very much like to speak with you, if you don't want to sign into an account of something we could arrange a time to be in cytube
No.26132
>>26131thats just because the far right have nothing better to do but shitpost online, they are paper tigers
I guarentee we just have less posters because y'know, leftists tend to like, go outside and shit.
No.26133
>>26132Also i've said it before and will say it again but having your front page be uncensored bbc porn and people eating shit isnt doing this board any favours.
Make a dedicated nsfw board and remove it from the obvious /all/ browsing at the least if you care about user rentention.
No.26134
Very true.
Indeed that's what Discomrade is doing, which, ironically, will only make the situation worse, and remove farther from any leftist chan's grasp ownership of the technical means memes of production.
No.26135
>>26133Also make me a >>>/fur/ / >>>/furry/ while we're all demanding things.
Here I am contributing to the problem you described. (This image has a bizarre meaning and I will not explain it.)
No.26136
>>26135I would be fine with a NSFW furry board if it wasnt part of the overboard, I think its what it rly comes down too because overboard is where you go if you want the full board expeirence
SFW cuts out too much stuff that isnt porn.
No.26137
>>26133This, for fucks sake. There is no reason not to.
No.26138
>>26136Whole overboard concept is flawed and always has been. Demand kuz do something about it on GitHub I guess, other than making sure they follow the TOS (one nerd posted “the gamer word” and it stuck around hours) I have no more responsibility to vichan.
Although the thing is, even if you do, most vichan sites have not respected Git branching and so are a mess of code that is to a degree incompatible, and I assume leftypol is no different.
No.26139
>>26130I'm about to clock out so it will have to wait, is it about the Esoteric thread or something else?
>>26131I wasn't aware.
I don't even think I've logged into GitHub this year.
>nobody has any reason to keep the dead horse that is vichan aliveIf you can't read commit histories or fork graphs, then uhhh good luck managing a repo pal.
No.26140
>>26135To the prude who spoiler-ed my image: please see
https://ilongfornetworkspirituality.com/ and you too can join an internet religion based on (mostly mentally) masturbating.
>>26139> If you can't read commit histories or fork graphs, then uhhh good luck managing a repo pal.Sorry?
No.26142
Whatever the fuck is going on
>even more furries
Aw hell naw I'm out
You're on your own
No.26143
>>26138>and I assume leftypol is no differentIncompatible in which way? Even the lainchan-based version of Leftypol is receptive to vichan upstream, and lainchan is a hacked-together MESS. I don't know why I thought they would be better devs.
No.26145
>>26143>Incompatible in which way? Even the lainchan-based version of Leftypol is receptive to vichan upstream, and lainchan is a hacked-together MESS. I don't know why I thought they would be better devs.Well, the first type of feature incompatibility is simply patch incompatibility.
Meaning, you cannot merge patch hunks because you fucked with the code and are too incompetent to handle a three-way merge.
The second type is database incompatibility. Many admins have added columns, and because vichan sucks more dick than I do, it operates via raw SQL queries only.
So, it's very easy to enter a situation where if an ORM was in use as it ought to be, you could merge an upstream feature, but as it is not, you cannot.
No.26147
>>26141lol that graph is messed up on our section:
1) we were an 8chan board from 2014 to 2019
2) Then we were a lynxchan board until Dec 2021
3) And because the devs at the time fucked up, we became a lainchan fork, despite it already being mostly abandoned
I'm not an admin, I just became the main active dev in 2021-2022
>>26145If you're looking for fun, I made a rebase onto vichan, cherrypicking various features from NPF, infinity, lain and leftypol. It's missing some bonus features like captcha but it's functional.
But yeah, having done that I see what you mean, especially with SQL. NPF added a ton of tables and decided to make some InnoDB because fuck it.
No.26148
>>26147>2) Then we were a lynxchan board until Dec 2021You should have stuck with that.
>3) And because the devs at the time fucked up, we became a lainchan fork, despite it already being mostly abandonedYikes. Really bad choice. This software was entirely written on drugs.
Michael S. (@savetheinternet) had a cocaine problem he went to rehab for.
Marcin Ł. (@czaks) has a big problem with alcohol.
And I'm a cripple who wrote it while coming down from shrooms then wrote the rest while high on painkillers.
At least Stephan L. (@lynxchan) is straightedge, and his code is a lot more maintainable.
No.26152
>>26148>You should have stuck with that.I wasn't on the staff at the time so I don't know details, but the site was having major scaling issues and 503s on Lynxchan, and I recall Stephen Lynx personally came over to say it was a configuration error and not his fault. Or something.
>This software was entirely written on drugs.Yeah but it's ok because we're lainchan too which was entirely written by skiddies.
As for a jump to Lynx or JSchan, I guess there wasn't enough motivation, and our fork had features we needed that they didn't have.
>>26149>>26150It's effectively abandonware, I asked the admin to update their git last year and it's just config changes at this point.
Furthermore, they only maintained parts related to the features they used, so upstreaming would incidentally be a pain.
There are a couple of nice features, like catalog posting, but not worth it.
No.26153
>>26139lets just say you have necessary skills I don't have, similar enough ideas, and now you have more time on your hands
No.26154
Comrades we are in the presence of $DEITY listen to their words well and remember their trips
No.26155
>>26152>It's effectively abandonware, I asked the admin to update their git last year and it's just config changes at this point.>Furthermore, they only maintained parts related to the features they used, so upstreaming would incidentally be a pain.>There are a couple of nice features, like catalog posting, but not worth it.Makes sense. Most people who are…let's say overly into the whole s. e. Lain (((æsthetic))) view technology as it is in the show: cool looking stuff to look like a deep edgy hacker(wo)man.
So all that matters is how it looks, not what it is/does.
No.26156
>>26155Why do triple parens no longer make porkies?
No.26159
>>26146I was about to ask why you saved these, but this video is cathartic.
no offense>>26153Well, not really more time. A lack of time is why development has been slow for months now, with /tech/ evidently suffering. I have a bad habit of taking on 10 projects at once.
I'll have a chat later, but I'm doing a Stu Pickles here and want to get in touch with an org
tomortoday morning so I really have to leave for now.
>>26156I don't know. There are many things we should have done but didn't, I had honestly forgotten about that. We're notoriously falling behind on banners let alone decorations.
I mean we now have ᴉuᴉlossnW and the nearly-impenetrable gamer word filter, but regaining the culture of yesteryear has been a struggle, hence my blogpost up top.
>>26158Thanks mate, and all the best to you as well. Bonan nokton!
No.26160
>>26159Nearly impenetrable?
Let me try.
uyghēr
No.26161
>>26160Interesting.
uyghur
No.26163
[ok this time for real last post for now]
>>26160It is very entertaining to watch 4chan raids trying to scream transhumanist uyghur. Bitches don't know about Lassalle.
Well, gotta make that regex knowledge work somehow. I will say I got quite adept with the filters, with all the raids and whatnot.
No.26164
>>26163What about coercion from Cyrillic to Latin?
If this one won't work you've beaten me.
ʼnіցｇег
No.26167
>>26158
> Truly, who is going to administrate the servers here?Guess it's my job now.
No.26168
>>26148Holy shit it's Hotwheels
No.26169
>>26153>>26159For the love of all that is matter
do this No.26170
>>26167Maybe start by coercing Unicode lookalikes. You can find a list in confusablesSummary.txt in the Unicode database.
print("\n".join(["".join([e if e else "∅" for e in l]) for l in get_combinations([list(confusables.confusable_characters(c)) for c in "uyghur"])]))yields:
𝑁ȋ𝑮𝑮ȇ𝕽
𝚗𝟙ԌԌ𝟯Г
NỉԍԍỂʀ
nꙇ𝔊𝔊ễᖇ
ｎĬ𝗴𝗴𝈆𝑹
𝙉𝚕𝓖𝓖ӠᎡ
ν𝖑𝐆𝐆𝕖Ꮢ
𝖭١ǵǵêȐ
𝛮ì𝔤𝔤𝘦ℜ
Ṉɪｇｇ𝒆ᴦ
ոḭĝĝｅȒ
𝓃𝞘ḡḡē𝘳
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>>26168>Holy shit it's HotwheelsLiterally who?
No.26171
so long as the dream is recapturing 8chan it will remain a dream
this site's failure is the failure of the left writ large, a failure to imagine a new future. look at the ideological preconceptions of practically any of the users and you will find the puppet corpse of history with an iPhone in its mouth. to imagine anything else would be too discomforting. to imagine anything else would entail accepting that the past is dead. as the ship slips beneath the waves, some weigh themselves down with socailist realist paintings and others weigh themselves down with 2017 nostalgia.
a neoclassical economist will tell you that it is the revealed preference of the two groups to drown with the ship. they prefer the sweet release of death with their cherished symbols to the horrible contemporary realities that they would have to face were they to actually make it to a life-boat and escape. they would have to face the future alone and decide their own course in life. the horrifying fact is, the economist is correct. whatever they may say before the ship is holed, they would prefer to drown.
No.26173
>>26171im sorry that happened to you or well done idk im not reading all of that
No.26175
Perhaps the funniest thing is that Pask was retiring in the near-future, right after this moderation recruitment wave.
I will say, whatever their grievances, discomrade was always very terrible at actually airing them and the extent to which I ever knew about them was whenever he got into social fights with pasq. There was never any approaching (I know of) with other mods over their issues, never using any of our channels to put any behavior up to question or even starting a dialog on the topic, and long periods of absence where we'd basically wonder "well, where the fuck did they go?", generally they never tried to put their own thumb on the scales. Nothing that was done moderation-wise, generally speaking, was not done without the usual consensus-building between the team, which of course requires attendance to be a part of. I think to not attend the almost monthly discussions about how to moderate, what issues the site has, and other topics then acting surprised when the proverbial moderation ship takes a course you don't like is a bit silly.
/leftypol/ is not some kind of ideal removed from the context of its history, but a continually evolving idea which must evolve alongside its conditions. The /leftypol/ you and I once posted in is merely a memory of the past conditions it once existed in, something unrepeatable and fundamentally incongruent with our current situation of being a site which is an island unto itself. Things like the expansion of boards is not just making filler boards for filler's sake, but expansions into topics and mediums which are too large and off-topic for /leftypol/, but more importantly, that outside of the context of being in 8chan, there is not really an appropriate place for. When we existed in common within another chan, you could just go to the appropriate 8chan board for this conversations. Lacking that, it becomes incumbent on us to build those boards, at a rate which is reasonable in its expansion. All of the alt-boards were never expected (or even desired) to be as fast as /leftypol/, and they do their jobs relatively fine for what we all expected (except for you, I suppose, but I didn't even know this grievance until now!)
Likewise, the general degradation of the right's mental state alongside being removed from the context of sharing a website with them meant only the most deranged rightoids came here, and entertaining the idea that there was productive posts coming from them is just silly. This may be an issue of perspective from absence, or maybe just ideological blinders thinking that we do not have the conditions of old /leftypol/ because we simply don't live up to the spirit of old /leftypol/ - either way, it is wholly detached from the realities of moderation gruntwork, which is 99% removing thingnoticer-tier posting.
Regardless, I liked discomrade well enough, and ultimately wish them the best, even if this whole thing (ghosting for months at a time before finally posting this) was probably the worst thing I could think of doing.
No.26176
>>26175> I will say, whatever their grievances, discomrade was always very terrible at actually airing them and the extent to which I ever knew about them was whenever he got into social fights with pasq.Developers are always shit at that.
(By the way, I should have been banned for avatarfagging long ago. Do your job.)
(beaned) No.26177
>>26176
> Developers are always shit at that.The great curse.
No.26178
>>26176I appreciate that anti was not only a dev but also practically speaking the architect and chief advocate for our current system of intra-mod dialog. Man is exceptional in many ways.
No.26179
>>26085Hey Disco,
It's sad to see you go, and more in this manner. I see you mention you're joining an org, that's great. I think one thing that's been made clear is that maybe the mod org needs more political formation, particularly in democratic centralism, how to turn concerns into action, and enforcement. I wasn't under the impression that you had any grievances, which your post is a big surprise in this regard. Having more mods with political experience in this form of organization would be great. Reading and tutoring can only get us so far.
Internal struggle should ideally be solved internally, and unless it is unresolvable, then other avenues might be appropriate. As it stands, there's no "central committee" that is responsible for taking in individual mod's grievances and doing something about them. Every mod can choose to care about other's grievances or not, and its up to the mod to push their grievance forward, convince others of the need to act, etc. Perhaps we could change that, so that these sad surprises don't happen.
I'll think about this unfortunate situation and the rest of your feedback in the thread. As any other leftypoler here, I wish to grow and foster a nice community I enjoy being part of. I hope you continue to contribute in other ways.
As a user of leftypol, thank you for all the work you've put into the development of the site. And as a fellow mod and devops, cheers mate, thanks again for all the work. I hope we can count on your good work in the future, be it in this project or the next.
Warm regards,
Antinous
No.26180
>>26085You were one of the few people actually working to better and maintain this site. Good on you for knowing where your time is well spent. Have a good life disco
>>26179Anti you're a lamb, but doesn't it strike you as silly that you needed disco's resignation before thinking "gee maybe if we had an actual grievance process, and some level of enforced centralism, problems would get dealt with better"
The fact that both you and woobly say you didnt know disco had any gripes is exactly the problem.
Here's a curve ball: what do leftists care about, and how does this imageboard (or any imageboard) service these goals? This is the ultimate contradiction at work here. The more we embrace chaotic and diverse debate, the less of a clear audience any serious leftist has, and the moar subjectivists and listless nerds are attracted. The more we embrace this as a leftist safe space, the site loses appeal and the vibrancy of debate and diversity; old discussions are rehashed literally every weak; and most notably the more antagonistic and open sectarianism becomes, as the definition of what the basic left line is is up for debate (despite it being laid out in the constitution).
No.26181
>>26175>There was never any approaching (I know of) with other mods over their issues, never using any of our channels to put any behavior up to question or even starting a dialog on the topicI
repeatedly raised objections with specific actions, like ban appeals and confusing deletions, with whoever did them, both in mod meetings and in the mod chat. I repeatedly used the moderator meetings to air complaints about poor practices. You can even look at the note summaries at:
>>21581>Make more categories with less time in the punishment to increase flexibility and nuance>Much more spam [ban reason] categories to make it less vague<[another meeting]>Spam [as a ban reason] changed to commercial or bot spamnote: 'spam' is still being misused by vwobbly
>Mod actions needs to be more visible so that users can be aware of what is happening [things like capcoding to explain why a thread was bumplocked]>Saged thread must come with reasons.>Give people a warning instead of deleting their postsSorry if I was too diplomatic and didn't call you or others out by name, or confront people daily in the mod chat. Maybe I shouldn't have been as adverse to starting drama which needed to be started. Maybe I should have abused my mod/dev status so someone would actually listen to objections.
The absence is a fair complaint. My life got busier and busier and I was splitting myself between many projects, at the end of last year and in this year. I didn't give forewarning or drop in to tell people when I was demotivated and jaded by the lack of care. I was admittedly not persistent enough when I said we should focus on finding new devs last year when anti and I were each taking longer breaks and falling behind on promised features.
>I think to not attend the almost monthly discussions about how to moderate, what issues the site has, and other topics then acting surprised when the proverbial moderation ship takes a course you don't like is a bit silly.Even at the end when I was getting jaded, and even with me literally waking up in the middle of the night just to attend, I am listed as in attendance of 2 of the 4 meetings before effectively I left the site for a month in February. Attendance is typically 5-7 people.
>/leftypol/ is not some kind of ideal removed from the context of its history, but a continually evolving idea which must evolve alongside its conditions.Of course. Like I said, its environment is being surrounded by other sites which would make its current course more and more redundant. And like I said, that is enough to kill it, in terms of userbase.
/leftypol/ is an anonymous imageboard, structurally (and incidentally culturally). There is [effectively] no authentication needed to post. If your goal is to make it a restricted or polished place, you are contradicting both its material traits and social context. This architecture is not built to moderate, and we're advertising by name and format "Hey, we're an anonymous imageboard like /pol/!". All the other sites trying to be like that can do it better, even just on a technical level let alone a social level, a resource level, a reputational level. So it's a really dumb course to pursue, a slow suicide.
If this site must evolve, despite its users and despite its place in the 'online left' sphere, then it should embrace that and stop clinging to the past legacy of being /leftypol/.
>Things like the expansion of boards is not just making filler boards for filler's sake, but expansions into topics and mediums which are too large and off-topic for /leftypol/Well that's why we have:
>boards that are not /leftypol/>imageboards that are not leftypol.org8chan boards didn't just die, most of them still exist on standalone sites like us, or open-board 8chan clones like 8moe and endchan and anon.cafe.
If there is a topic getting approximately zero (0) attention on /leftypol/ and on /siberia/, it probably doesn't need a board. Most of the boards are legacy from when we did have enough people on the site to have /b/ overflow. Our conditions changed.
>at a rate which is reasonable in its expansion.Looking at the stats….. that rate is negative and has been for years.
—–
Like I said earlier in the thread, my complaint with you isn't personal. I just think you're moderating the wrong website. I have no hard feelings with you and appreciate that you actually care to explain your viewpoint unlike some others. And I do owe an apology for ghosting. It helped no-one and burnout isn't an excuse.
>>26176lol
No.26182
>>26179>I wasn't under the impression that you had any grievances, which your post is a big surprise in this regard.In hindsight, it would have been better for me to be more open and persistent about my grievances, instead of just requests for improvement. I do recall pask once complaining months ago that they disliked my avoidance of drama, and I'll have to agree, yes, I was like that and it's not a good thing. My complaints were passive and I felt the worst thing I could do was make people scared of another split. Even when I raised my final complaint in the staff room about outright moderator abuse in January, there was clearly a panic and mods trying to calm the situation. We are collectively drama-adverse, and not without reason, but that's making us avoid improvement.
I think a major problem, and one I raised a lot in 2021, is that we are
too internal. Beyond the very occasional polls Caballo ran for user feedback and the unreliable /meta/ replies, and the little that comes through Congress (which we almost don't use unless replying, another thing I should have complained about more than once or twice a month), we don't take user feedback.
Not only that, but some in the mod team are hostile to the userbase's views, and embrace that we were in a high tower. Look back at the crisis where m00dy defaced and stickied a serious effortpost OP by gingeet (2021). Clearly out of line. The correct thing to do is temporary suspension. It's that far out of line. But we didn't do that because of the raiding and wanting to cover timezones. Alright, that's at least reasonable, I can critically accept that. But then we had mods saying "Don't even apologize, just ignore it". That's bad cop shit. The analogy is warranted.
I know that rant went besides the point, but the solution isn't (just) listening more to each other, because we can look at the replies here and understand I was usually talking on behalf of regular users. Who's doing that now?
These aren't my complaints. I'm not getting banned for nonsense reasons. I'm (well it did happen once or twice when posts got deleted for no reason) being treated like shit by pask in /meta/. I'm not getting my whole IP nuked over a dubious ban. And I'm guessing those issues aren't happening often to you or most other mods. So there is more needed that centralization. We don't communicate with the board either. A thread is saged and people ask why. Even when it gets unsaged, we don't know why.
>I hope you continue to contribute in other ways. We'll see. I'm taking a bit of time away to launch a small project of my own which, after initial launch, doesn't need much maintenance. In the mean time I'll probably just be making little bits of OC in threads.
It's been a pleasure working alongside you. Good luck to you and the new guy.
>>26180Thanks, I appreciate it.
>The fact that both you and woobly say you didnt know disco had any gripes is exactly the problem.I mean, yes and no. I should have been more aggressive/persistent and personal with some of the complaints. I'm aware we don't have a Trello or an issue tracker or a (in use) board like old leftypol.org had, communication is just chat room channels. But I did raise those complaints, some of them even started long discussions/arguments in the mod chat. But the mod meetings and mod chat are ephemeral, maybe apart from the (recently continued) updates Comet and co have been making of mod meetings, and the vote room.
But the bottom line is there are complaints I made, they are noted in the mod meetings, and did follow up on them, and made steps to help alleviate, but then the next week they are ignored. Yes, I didn't add the second round of ban reasons to the automated ban reason filler, that's on me, but when mods are still writing 'spam' and 'insane' as ban reasons on user posts even up until this week, that button isn't going to fix the problem. I feel like it's a lack of empathy or benefit of doubt.
>Here's a curve ball: [snip]One bit on that I'd like to add: we should look at (or hey, poll!) the reasons people come here.
When I did see people comparing us to other sites, I saw things like "We're not speech-policed like reddit" and that its ok to express a controversial opinion and discuss it instead of getting deleted or bullied (in the social sense, like vote bombing, false reports, account stalking).
Take that away, and we're redundant and unpopular.
No.26183
>>26182>ok to express a controversial opinion And to clarify I don't even mean 'reactionary' here. It can be as simple as a mistaken understanding or a novel interpretation.
No.26184
>>26181I mean, we're grunts my man. I made an entire list, specifically for you, tracking all of the ban reasons I made bans for an entire month to expressly give to you so you could code in the new ban reasons for the predefined ban list. I think I did all I could do help you with that short of actually learning to code and do it myself, you were your own bottleneck there. If I ever fell short in this, I was never told that I had.
Likewise I took on your advice for saging threads and would give reasons for their saging with the warning system, and post deletion by IP was usually reserved for particularly grievous spam or raiding. I am not really sure what much more could be done that would not have gotten into issues of fundamental site direction, which was something you never raised in regards to stuff like banning /pol/ and would have to be done in a much more comprehensive series of debates regarding the site's direction and all that. Perhaps you are simply not a good people person and did not know how to approach on these things, I don't know. But it does not feel like you ever made grievances which were purposefully and maliciously ignored. If it is a simple difference in opinion of what way the site is going, I'd much rather we leave it at that than play some asinine blame game.
As for your jaded-ness, we would have much rather had you just say as much so we knew what was coming ahead of time and prepared. Luckily we do have a new dev lined up, but I would've hoped whatever comradarie we once had would have compelled you to tell us beforehand. There is no bad blood for saying you are simply done with your duties - it is the inevitable fate of all jannies.
As for the meetings, the participation of members putting forwards their issues is as importance as attendance, and iirc every issue you brought up we tried to accommodate. I'll refer to my second paragraph's inference, and my third paragraph's conclusion.
Personally, I do not think /leftypol/ is obsolete in any sense, because in reality most of our competition is likewise aged mediums. Reddit clones like lemmy are effectively just aggregated webforums, smaller chatrooms on fbi.gov or element are just IRC channels, so on. It is innovation within the medium which is important, and we were generally moving towards it with stuff like posting tag systems and more varied overboard usage, but it is stuff which would necessarily take time - possibly including yours - to accomplish. You are by no means obligated to do it and I feel no hard feelings that you are leaving, but innovation requires work to accomplish. We can still maintain our place as an anonymous space for discussion of things that generally interest the left, all while generally sticking to our roots as a chan and our heritage of /leftypol/. Really, if any of what you believed is true, then our system would not have triumphed split after split - we have come out on top as underdogs as much as the establishment time after time. This is of course not to say that /leftypol/ is without problems, but I see no problem which is not fixable, or at least not terminal.
>8chan boards didn't just die, most of them still exist on standalone sitesWhich we considered federation with and was turned down from. We are different sites, and for whatever quirk of the human brain, people like things to stay all in one place for easier access. I don't know a lot of people on /leftypol/ who regularly prefer say, /v/ to /games/ for general discussion (granted, a low bar!) and there are still plenty enough discussions to go around. Likewise there are some people who post mostly in an alt board and rarely engage in /leftypol/, which shows they are a net benefit as a way to bring in people who want chill topical discussions.
>Most of the boards are legacy from when we did have enough people on the site to have /b/ overflow.That is a notion which has been tested both in the moderation and in the wider userbase and found to be false. Nobody wants to close or consolidate boards just cause they are slow except for handfuls of people who, on average, don't even use the other boards anyways. It's a vanity issue for them, but a practical and structural issue for people who want to maintain it.
>that rate is negative and has been for years.I don't believe so. The biggest hits were no doubt 8chan to bunker, and then again from bunker to .org. But ever since we are relatively stable in users, if highly dependent on the whims of happenings for engagement and new user intake. Which is fine, imho - it is a mistake for us to pursue the capitalist mindset of infinite numbers and infinite growth perpetually, especially knowing how brain-poisony the internet is these days. Breaks and/or doing irl stuff is completely fine - /leftypol/ will still be here for whenever they feel it necessary to come back to the place. It still has much of the discussions people expect, and you very rarely see people go "hey, why isn't there a thread on (X, Y,Z)?" Some rules have been adapted, like the idpol rule loosening up without the need for self-censorship on supporting gay or trans people to quiet down /pol/ brigading, but that is to be expected in the shift of environment. We do not tolerate legitimate transphobia or homophobia in the same ways we never did, because it was fundamentally anti-communist in the same way being antisemitic is. Net, it has allowed for much more positive discussions of the phenomenon in relation to material history.
>>26182>we don't take user feedback.User feedback and anonymous posting don't go well together, generally speaking. We do take suggestions, answer comments, and so on, whenever they are asked. And usually speaking, there are very few cases you need to push forwards on congress for banning or deleting, nor would I want to solely do that since its a very small and specifically engaged portion of our userbase.
>some in the mod team are hostile to the userbase's viewsOutside of specific troublemakers we grow animosity towards, I don't think so. Most of us can't be bothered to track the papertrail of users to try and connect dots aside from terminal spammers, and that is as a matter of site security. As for the ginjeet thing, I did some backroom talks with moody iirc to try and discipline them more since I felt it'd be better to do so there where they could more openly talk about how/why they did it and I could more directly tell them why its wrong. There is a reason it only happened the once.
>But then we had mods…Pask - which yes, he loves his bluster. But he doesn't act on it and generally performs his duties well, you two's beef notwithstanding.
>because we can look at the replies here and understand I was usually talking on behalf of regular usersWe all like to believe that, and to a certain extent it is likely statistically true. However, the "average user", like all averages, is a poor misrepresentation of the data. The entire point of the mod system as-is really is to try and create a median /leftypol/ which can meet most people in the middle, and it has worked thus far.
–
Otherwise, I would just recommend you not treat your irl org like you have us. Such obligations are much more serious and of much greater consequence, and a bad name can spread quickly in leftist circles. I wish you the best in whatever endeavors, if this is the course you are really taking.
Fuck typing btw
No.26187
Ah yes, the words words words angle. This is the main draw of /leftypol/ for me, trying to sort through the walls of text. Doesn't happen too often nowadays but when it does it hits right.
Don't care too much about the content though, mods=fags has been a saying for close to 20 years for a reason and it's never going to get any better - much like irl with capitalism, but you guys already knew that lol.
See you on halfchan if you funposters still waste your life there, or in an org for the 3 or 4 guys who are actually serious about socialism (protip: stop wasting your time in here if that's (You))
No.26188
>>26184>Perhaps you are simply not a good people person and did not know how to approach on these things, I don't know. But it does not feel like you ever made grievances which were purposefully and maliciously ignored.Maybe, I think it's more that I was too worried about starting a heap of arguments and being seen as a drama-starter, like how a lot of pre-coup mods were. And I'm not trying to suggest there was anything malicious, but that I kept repeatedly talked about some of these, we collectively acknowledged it, and then it gets ignored. Raising complaints just starts to feel futile, and hopefully I made that assumption preemptively but it honestly feels like it.
>As for the ginjeet thing, I did some backroom talks with moody iirc to try and discipline them more since I felt it'd be better to do so there where they could more openly talk about how/why they did it and I could more directly tell them why its wrong. There is a reason it only happened the once.We didn't know that, and I'll say that was a good move to handle like that, but we (collectively) didn't hand it at all well beyond that. We need to try and empathize more with the userbase. Their experience was:
>mod defaces an effortpost on /leftypol/>ask why the hell is going on>no replyIt's a slap in the face.
>But he doesn't act on it and generally performs his duties wellLooking at regular complaints in threads and on /meta/ I can't agree with that.
>Otherwise, I would just recommend you not treat your irl org like you have us. Such obligations are much more serious and of much greater consequence, and a bad name can spread quickly in leftist circles. I wish you the best in whatever endeavors, if this is the course you are really taking.I've definitely learned lessons, and I didn't fully realize how neglectful it was to not give updates when I was overwhelmed with unrelated things.
>Fuck typing btw+1
>>26186>Is this why you have been MIA for weeks?Partly, a mix of that with hectic desperate busyness (this isn't the only community I've been unable to contribute to lately, I've been split between a dozen projects, many which suddenly became more urgent and volatile than this relatively stable imageboard, on top of full-time work), physical exhaustion, burnout, shame of being a moderator, and weening away from imageboards.
>regulating the rules enforcementThe rules are ignored daily. Rule enforcement would inevitably become me starting arguments every day. It's clear from the few outbursts I had that the mod team was intent on calming everything down and saying everything is fine.
The meeting was all agreement, but ignored the next day.
This is the best I can do to begin fixing the contradictions with the time and energy available to me. Either this or turning the staff room back into the fucked up atmosphere we had with Coma, Caballo and Sage in the same Congress room. Which quite frankly I don't want to push onto everyone after the coup. If I didn't abandon my post, I would have straight up started a formal vote to kick out pask. That is the only first step which isn't so weak it gets ignored like usual. Even me ranting about their straight-up abuse started damage control in the staff room, imagine how a vote to kick would have gone down.
I must emphasize, we're not talking about a few accidents or a minor disagreements over rules, this is not reformable through casual meetings and complaints. There are fundamental issues with how we see the site, and how staff interact with users.
>Can you at least hands things over to Jae and the rest of the mods before you leave?I'm happy to give help and give advice or have a chat session with Jae if they want it. If they have any interest in the new vichan rebase, I can introduce that as well (documentation/TODO is on the test site, /dev/)
No.26189
>the words words words angle
i liek words :)
No.26190
>>26186>resolutions are decided, yet no one complies in practice>"wow this is fucked up, no one listens… hey guys can you help me out and cooperate">be comet>have a really good idea, open leftypol dot org>"You're complaining to us, yet you didn't fix the problem of people not cooperating by yourself. So little initiative! BTW devvie, there's a stack of work waiting on your desk for when you come back 😏 hop to it, devvie"Its funny how you display exactly the attitude and poor communication and fundamental inability or unwillingness to see and listen to the problem that led to this thread
disco is too nice, i dont know how he keeps so chill
No.26191
>>26190I mean, I don't think anyone failed to do their part in regards to non-coding tasks for disco, generally. We have a tech channel for the devs that everyone posts ideas/drafts/user input into and they are free to pursue them (or other tasks) as they see fit, save for any imminently critical issues (very rare).
Obtuse tasks or poor communication is a maybe thing, but generally speaking since its a work-as-you-will position keeping tasklists usually is counter-productive, and instead individual or a few mods will take up tasks as they will. Implementation will change and morph with experimentation, drafts made, chewed up, itterated, rejected and remade, or whatever else, and eventually we'll reach something we implement, either with general consensus (if a small thing) or a vote (if its a contentious thing, since voting implicitly also means debating and compromising). There aren't usually things that just "fall through the cracks" as much as people will push long-term ideas which will take much work to achieve, or they spitball ideas that seem alright but nobody has the enthusiasm to pursue and thus it gets dropped. The system works fine for people who stay engaged, though it can be disorientating for people who take a break and come back. This is just speculation, but I think maybe that getting burnt out then coming back to see changes you may not agree with can cause further burnout, and lead to a repetitive cycle of that. It's happened a few times to other mods, but they eventually got "up to speed" as it were. The problem is that its hard to account for people who are not as present, both literally and figuratively, in meetings. Our last one was in text rather than in voice, which seemed to help with people who don't speak as much in the regular meetings.
No.26192
>>26188>Partly, a mix of that with hectic desperate busynessOkay that is a shame, a lot of us are facing that same problem. RedLid and AusFag don't have time to moderate. KGBeast and Misato is out there organizing. It is okay if you want to leave due to other obligations like Rat and Barbara Pitt. I understand. I personally find your comment about the moderation being complacent to be wildly ironic, since we are all literally just as busy as you. Even your implication that Krates is apathetic is insultingly untrue. If you kept up at the meetings and chats you would know the massive changes in his personal and national circumstances. I have also assumed similar changes are going on in your life but I didn't know you have massive grievances as well.
>The rules are ignored daily. Rule enforcement would inevitably become me starting arguments every day. It's clear from the few outbursts I had that the mod team was intent on calming everything down and saying everything is fine.Okay I understand. I would have preferred an outright confrontation than to slowly let resentment boil over. But that is beside the point. The meetings you were in we have all agreed and assigned you to write down how we go about enforcing the rules. Your grievances with Pask are legitimate and I do agree he is a wildcard that needs to be reined in, but there isn't a standard or metric to really gauge his misadventures. We can't ask him to do better simply because you haven't written down what better is.
>I'm happy to give help and give advice or have a chat session with Jae if they want it.Okay come on to the Matrix and talk to Jae and give her whatever she needs and wants.
And since we are all airing our grievances in public for some reason, allow me to share mine and turn this to a proper struggle session. I am very frustrated with the moderation team's inability to be remain online and able to actually do things we agreed to do in meetings. Or even show up to meetings at all. I still vividly remember once where literally only Krates and I was online at the expected time for the meeting where 6 people agreed to attend. He asked me if I have anything to bring up and I said "Yes! I would like to address the problem of meeting attendance!" There is a reason why meeting notes are logged in this board with a list of moderators present. The inactivity isn't really broadcasted to the rest of the team so that we can compensate accordingly. Ghosted without a rationale. And this inactivity is reflected in our moderation. Pask, wvobbly and moody are the most hated moderators because they are the most active. If we (including me of course) are more active on this website, we can make decisions that would be more uniformed and consistent. So that criticism can be more on the structure of moderation/website and not our personalities which this user base loves to be wrong about.
Even if you find Pask's antics too much, a more active moderation could curb or repair his bad decisions
of course we still written down regulations and mod enforcement to keep him in line Indeed this inactivity prevents us from actually doing anything as quickly as I would like. Roulette idea to implementation took months coz the devs are not around most of the time. Aprils Fools is a missed opportunity too. Everyone is busy with IRL stuff and organizing, including me, that the website is neglected in terms of new features, new events and new actions. We have not gained much in institutional knowledge and structure over the past year.
>>26190That's not what happened. Look at the mod meetings, especially the ones Discomrade was in like in August. The problem was recognized but there was nothing outright written or stated to comply to. Discomrade did put out stuff in the user interface to encourage more consistency in banning, but not things like "Used as a guide or outline for recommended ban. Make more categories with less time in the punishment to increase flexibility and nuance. Much more spam categories to make it less vague. Create or form a common ban lexicon in the reasons." that was supposed to help us make things more consistently.I personally wrote these notes down, of course I have listened to Discomrade. I am just confused that his POV differed so differently from the meetings we had.
No.26193
>>26192Just as a quick rundown
>KratesHeavily involved in French protests, no time to mod
>AntiIrl work, organizing, no time to mod
>JaeFresh recruit, still needing their acclimation to the dev environment
>PaskActive but planning on retirement
>WVobblyHi :)
Seriously though where are all these fucking storms coming from I'm going to lose power again>CaballoBusy with irl stuff, more active recently
>CometOrganizing, irl stuff, still semi-active
>m00dyNeeds computer repairs, can't mod
>redlidCollege studies, not much free time between college and organizing
>AusfaganonBusy organizing and with irl stuff
>un_dolphinsBusy with irl stuff, more active recently
>gcbeirutFairly active, just different timezone.
>sindikatFairly active, just different timezone.
>kgbeastOrganizing and irl stuff, semi-active
>misatoVery involved with organizing, no time to mod
>spurgo6Taking break from modding
Of course we're going through recruiting and hope to get some new people, but as a lot of us are workers and organizers sometimes our attention is divided. Really, if the entire age demographic of /leftypol/ has shifted up from the average poster being adults instead of college nerds, we should probably aim for a larger team. Every last one of you I know to be good workers and solid leftists, but there simply needs to be more.
No.26194
Just to clarify. I never said I was 100% set on retiring. I did say I wished to leave and I did mean it but things change. My idea was rather to step back from too much day-to-day activity and having been here for so long, to take a more advisory role. But it stays an idea for the time being.
I haven't yet had time to read most of this thread btw
No.26195
>>26193>>Ausfaganon>Busy organizing and with irl stuff Ausfaganon said he had a lot of bills to pay and was working more shifts last I heard from him. I also personally work 52 hours a week btw. (8-12-12-12-8) and still commitments in local organizing stuff.
No.26196
>>26193Our divided attention, even if we increase the moderation team by a lot, doesn't solve the problem of having commitment and willpower to get things done. Insitutional knowledge needs to be built up and left behind to keep new and touching grass mods an easier time to moderate. But you still run into a wall of getting people to do things for the website, whether it is writing code, doing outreach programs or like using our twitter account regularly.
No.26198
>>26186>this theme sucksIt fucking sucks so hard (and not in a good way)
No.26199
Discomrade, I don't like you but it's like whatever
Fredrick, you're cool
No.26200
Also holy shit like
>words words words
ok, I can read a couple hundred pages a day so that's not per se the issue. Rather I feel like you need an editor.
No.26201
>>26181>literally waking up in the middle of the night just to attendYeah, like whatever dude. I've previously run on 5-6 hours per night of sleep for weeks and I know others who've done the same. Hell, there are people doing that most of their life. It's quite unhealthy however.
I mean no offense but this isn't impressive.
>stop clinging to the past legacy of being /leftypol/>being /leftypol/Essentialist thinking my man. Go to reeducation.
I think Feynman told a story about his dad explaining to him the idea that because you know the name of a thing doesn't mean you understand the thing.
>My name is my name.-Marlo Stanfield
(oh you addressed the issue of stress later, well, I'll leave it bc I wrote it)
>And I do owe an apology for ghosting. It helped no-one and burnout isn't an excuse.I like that. I'll apologize for acting like a rude asshole for large periods of time.
But fuck you for that analogy lmao (it shows a lack of political education, not trying to be mean but objectively-like)
>That's bad cop shitHow does this sound:
"slam dunk a spam baby into a trash can"
You should be able to understand the opposite view. Giving bad people attention encourages them. "Don't feed the troll."
>occasional polls Caballo ran for user feedbackthis is work, in the context of this place
>communicate with the boardthis is work
So just a suggestion, instead of constantly going like "who watches the watchers", we should go "who does the work"
You know, just a little shift in perspective.
>treated like shit by pask in /meta/sorry
>I feel like it's a lack of empathy or benefit of doubtInteresting, might be I agree. But understand I have a lot to do.
>deleted or bullied I may be a bully but I feel like this is perfectly normal behavior on an imageboard, so isn't it you that is going against "our traditions"?
Maybe it's a good thing we are going over all of the issues publicly however, so people may watch and learn from our mistakes.
Also I'll give you another piece of information about me. When everyone is calm, I am nervous. When everyone is nervous, I am calm. It has become my nature to be a contrarian.
>he loves his blusterIf you aren't loud, people don't listen to you. I think that is terrible. What is the next step when someone ignores a pressing issue to you? Is it to fight it out, mano-a-mano?
>formal vote to kick out paskI've been almost fucking begging you to take a step, any step. So this would have been a good course of action or something at least, in my most humble opinion.
>>26192>keep him in lineuwu oWo motherfucker
>grievances with Pask are legitimate and I do agree he is a wildcard that needs to be reined inCome at me. You know what the most dangerous thing in amerikkka is? A uygha with a library card.
No.26202
FUCK The name is the wrong way around
No.26203
Damn I said you need an editor but I just smashed several replies together. Ah well, who cares.
No.26204
OK I went to the shitter so I finally speedread all this shit.
I think it's funny OP described how a mod was abusing his power and laughing at users directly here in /meta/ and noone gave enough of a fuck to address that point directly, really puts the current zeitgeist in full display lel.
Also since we're talking names nobody cares about now, who were the mods who got TOR banned?
No.26205
>>26204>Also since we're talking names nobody cares about now, who were the mods who got TOR banned?Not him but I'm pretty sure it's common knowledge that it was wvobbly. The reasoning behind the ban was something like "pro-NATO spam", which about the most wvobbly thing ever.
No.26206
I think this site is cursed by being related to /pol/. Probably no way to fix that because it's baked into the very nature of the board. The name, the fact most of the userbase are former channers.
T. someone who found leftypol around the same time as I ever used 4chan 2016
Before that I was never interested in 4chan because it seemed asinine to me vs using a regular message board.
So what are the advantages of an imageboard?
Well, allows people to breeze through easier(I guess if they can figure our easily how it works.) Instead of having to do the registration dance.
Anonymous posting allows you to make posts and believe they might be judged on the content, rather than your reputation. Also keeps people from getting into it with you and then just reading through your 6 year post history. In this way it's kind of interesting for politics since people tend to get very hostile about this subject.
But then it leads to people just becoming absolutely rude. Like none of the kind of everyday bullshit allowed on imageboards would ever be tolerated on a normal messageboard. People actually have to act like decent people no matter what subject they're discussing.
So yeah I think I agree with discomrade that maybe some of the shitfest nature should be embraced. If anything what should be banned is posts making no kind of actual argument. Cope, seethe, KYS, etc.
Even thingnoticer can make for entertaining content when you discuss with him and get him to really spell out all his weird ideas. Lol I was the one who got him to go into detail about his Jimmy Neutron trauma, lol.
Also, as it's been pointed out, a lot of people here have gone from /pol/ or whatever to be de-radicalized like that magazine wrote about.
No.26207
>>26087>It was common to see succdems, lolberts, burgerbrains, brownpants, blacksharts and everyone in-between and around. There were even notsocs who declared their home to be /leftypol/ because we could actually hold an intelligent conversation, unlike their comrades on /pol/.Do you suppose that joining
The Webring would solve this issue?
No.26208
As much shit as I give mods, I think you guys are probably cool enough that you're not trying to doxx people and shit like that(I hope.)
Honestly if you guys meet that bar, you're alright, even if it's kind of built in that mods get the regular reddit/message board experience of seeing post histories and whatever. I guess it's safer posting regardless with only a handful having that access vs literally everyone.
No.26209
>>26208Although I guess good internet opsec would be to separate out all your interests into different usernames like I separate out my posts onto different vpn ips like I do here.
It's comfy having 0 persona though.
No.26210
>>26182Understood, read and acknowledged.
I've been trying to keep up with the thread, but unfortunately I'm afk for some days, so I can't contribute properly.
Thanks everyone for the civil struggle session :P
No.26211
And another thing. Mods need to understand their bans are only mildly obnoxious. Unless we're talking about a namefriend who can't post unless it's under his dumb persona. The bans effect nothing because you never ban all the VPN ips. It takes a couple seconds of clicking VPN ips to find one that is unbanned.
So maybe focus more on telling users what they're doing wrong and why you're going to delete their post, vs. thinking you're banning someone and keeping them from posting for X period of time. You could make this more like 4chan. Lol you can't post on any VPN ip because they're all already banned. I can't even post on my regular ISP because it's also banned.
No.26212
>>26131>Now I was hoping, hoping, this site would take overHow would this even play out? In what scenario? In what reality?
>>26148I still think Lynxchan looked like ass, but that's me being a nitpicky old fuck.
The only Lynxchan site that I can recall now is
https://bandada.club/ No.26213
>>26208>I think you guys are probably cool enough that you're not trying to doxx peopleWell…
No.26214
>>26213Well I take precautions and a photo of an ip and a post is less impactful than the usual username doxx. I don't think I've ever seen such a thing.
No.26215
>>26214I'm not going to talk about it here but name and location doxxing is something mods for this site have done before. As you said, just make sure you take the proper precautions and you will be fine though.
No.26216
>>26215Oh I have no doubt. I don't ever post on non-VPN.
No.26217
>>26215>I'm not going to talk about it here but name and location doxxing is something mods for this site have done before.Have they ever doxxed someone's actual name?
No.26218
>>26217obv never happened
No.26219
>>26212The issue with our Lynxchan (courtesy of Space_ so I don't know who is really responsible) was that it randomly broke. MongoError
And no one could attend to it.
No.26220
It's pretty telling that pask is refusing to address any point discomarde made, and other mods are resorting to pointing out his personal flaws.
The userbase had very similar grievances regarding moderation for ages, and the reactions of the most active mods seem to be "Why didn't you wake up at 3 A.M. in February to attend this Matrix meeting nobody attended?".
No positive change is going to occur if this is how the team envisions the present situation.
Discomrade is airing serious complaints about the direction /leftypol/ is taking, and I believe it's completely normal that once you start to think some organization is fucked beyond repair, you stop attending meetings all while considering resignation and going on with your adult life.
/leftypol/ is not easy to moderate for a few reasons:
- It's an imageboard, meaning it's inherently chaotic as social media. User feedback is often harsh and retarded.
- It's a leftist imageboard, and the typical imageboard user nowadays is an edgy rightoid moron.
- It's leftist social media, and let's not lie to ourselves, leftists tend to be pretty sectarian. There is a long history of grudges between Marxists vs. anarchists, Trots vs. other MLs, etc. All of us have an ego and think our little snowflake opinions are the "correct line", and the correct line obviously needs to be enforced.
/leftypol/ itself has an history, and when considering the volatile period that led the team to move from bunkerchan to leftypol.org — because Space_ was unreachable as an admin and the website was breaking down — then the later split between .org and leftychinlet right after, it's completely understandable that the remaining mod team wants to avoid drama and confrontation at all costs. I like you Coma but damn it, there were times when you needed to chill out man
The problem now is that some mods take their roles way too seriously.
As a mod, your role should be to remove content posted by bad actors (/pol/, pedo bots, …) and to foster an healthy environment so the community can have a good time and create good content.
From what I know, most mods I've have interacted with on Matrix have this goal in mind and don't overstep their bounds. Caballo indeed got an undeserved bad rep.
It's also good to know some people in the team are too busy with IRL activism, it's where real stuff happens and /leftypol/ is no substitute for agitating in the streets when it matters.
However some mods, like wvoobly, m00dy and apparently pask too, have micromanaging tendencies. They hand out bans like a Trotskyist would hand out newspapers. They ban people on shaky grounds, and when users confront them about it, they shrug it off or openly mock them.
It pains me to say this because I think m00dy is a funny shitposter, and wvoobly is a smart guy, they never banned me and I never had a personal problem with them.
However we need to face this fact: users are often mad at the same mods over and over again.
/leftypol/ is a modocracy, meaning us as users, have no power to do anything when it comes to administrating this place.
There are reasons why — sorry Sage I don't want to debate about this — and in any case, this is how things are effectively organized right now, it's not like basic users can coup the moderation or anything even if they wanted so.
In short, everything is in the hands of the mod/admin team. It's an internal matter and all we can do is comment on it.
All I'm suggesting is that the mods I've mentioned above should calm down. You are alienating users on a small imageboard with a declining userbase, and users end up leaving when they are pissed off. When there are no users, there is no content to moderate and your role become completely superfluous.
If you want to keep the power to shape discourse on /leftypol/, you need to be considerate of the userbase and the rest of the team, and to listen to their feedback, otherwise the userbase and the devs that build the moderation tools you are using will give you the finger and fuck off.
If your goal is to hasten the death of /leftypol/, fine, I'm in dire need to touch grass as it is evidenced in this lengthy post, but it would pain me to see this place die as it's one of the few fun imageboards remaining online.
I also want to remind people that moderating the website isn't administrating the website. An admin or someone with the adequate rights could theoretically administer to some mods a taste of their own's medicine, unilaterally, for any reason whatsoever.
Modding is pretty easy compared to paying the server costs and maintaining an infrastructure.
Mods aren't the general secretaries of a party, they are here mainly to moderate discussion, to clean up the mess of bad actors and remind shitposters of the rules (like they do on Lainchan where every other OP has a warning about breaking the rules), and give an informed opinion on the development of future features for the website, that's it basically.
Some mods I have in mind will shrug it off, but I hope this little reminder is humbling to some.
I've heard that there are only very little people remaining in the team who have both the skills and time to maintain this website, so please don't fuck it up and stop alienating useful team members.
Anyone can fill the little form to ban people on a whim, I did so in the past, and when people told me I fucked up by not consulting the team first, I apologized, listened to them and took note. It's that simple. I kept my janitorial duties to a minimum and as a result have no bad rep among the userbase AFAIK.
/leftypol/ is not a Troskyist sect, it's a shitposting imageboard with socialist characteristics. Some mods need to stop micromanaging the userbase. Stop brushing off criticism, it's not even that ruthless. Find an internal mechanism for accountability. We just want to have a good time.
No.26221
>>26220>address any point discomarde madeThey have been addressed directly
>>26201>some organization is fucked beyond repairThat's not how things work
>considering resignationok how many times do you think I considered resignation? Make a guess, really.
You may think the invitation to the Thunderdome was empty talk but it is not.
Zul I've told in the bad old times that we should both resign and I'd have done it too (of course there is the question of enforcement, he was maximally dishonest, pathological).
>bad rep among the userbaseIf you don't have a bad rep among some, you have a bad rep with me (I don't know who you are but one follows logically from the other).
No.26222
>>26220>"Why didn't you wake up at 3 A.M. in February to attend this Matrix meeting nobody attended?".Will address your larger point when I get back home but only one other mod and I am are attending meetings at 3 to 6am in the morning. Meetings are usually set in Western prime times (since it is by consensus) and we are the furthest from these timezones.
t. Comet
No.26224
Whats crazy is the amount of mods listed in the above posts, when its basically 4 or 5 names consistently in the mod logs.
I get people are busy and so on, but perhaps there is something about the way things have gone, that have meant these other mods, some of them very long term mods, just can't bring themselves to do it any more.
Even Pask is saying he wants to leave.
Now, if you ALL want to leave, even the ones saying "everything is fine its you with the problem"
How much more could the writing even be on the wall?
You all know my views, no point in rinse and repeating them, I will simply say, it is so abundantly clear things need to change, and, it is not too late at all to do so, it will simply take everybody being like "well, we are at this point, what can we do about it".
For me, what you can do about it is simple and always has been: formulate a proper system for real user input, via a good faith effort to engage with a user body, which is allowed their own space on the board, to advertise their own off board communications, in these off board communications, they can first build the necessary structures for a properly democratic system of feedback, and, once built, then hold a large convention on: where should the board go, what are its goals, then: how can these be implemented, in a manner driven by the userbase, with the blessing and help of the mods where their powers are needed, as well as their help in protection from threats.
Obviously he may have made a final decision on this, but I would clearly nominate Disco as the mod to oversee these, to be user-mod liason.
At this point, really, why couldn't this happen? What is to be lost?
No.26225
>>26224>if you ALL want to leaveYou ever had a job?
No.26226
>>26221>They have been addressed directly >>26201No sorry, it's what I call "brushing off criticism".
Your main dev is leaving and made his resignation public, most of the team wasn't expecting it, and your reply is "bullying is perfectly normal behavior on an imageboard".
The only people remaining for devops are someone very busy IRL and a fresh recruit. I don't think I need to explain why it's not a good sign of things to come. You might encounter difficulties in the future.
>Zul I've told in the bad old times that we should both resign and I'd have done it too (of course there is the question of enforcement, he was maximally dishonest, pathological).Zul was indeed a troublemaker, and so was Comrade Watermelon. They started drama and overstepped the bounds and now they are moderating an imageboard with 3 PPH (if they are even active as mods there anymore).
>I don't know who you areGood, me neither.
>>26222I was being provocative on purpose so people would read my blogpost, but I know it can be pretty hard to coordinate among timezones when everyone has a different schedule, and meetings are always needed at some point or another.
You banned me once but I'm not mad at you, it was rightful penance. No.26227
>>26226What shall I do? Walk to Canossa? Mecca maybe? Lourdes? Al-Aqsa?
I've tried explaining myself
for example I think this is important
>a suggestion, instead of constantly going like "who watches the watchers", we should go "who does the work">not a good sign of things to comeYou think this is a crisis, for me it is just normal.
No.26228
>>26225I'm not going to get into a back and fourth, nobody wants that. This is discos thread anyway.
I simply see it as another sign of how things are, I have stated my solution. If anybody would like to work towards that solution or a similar solution I am all ears and warm heart, if not, I'm past the point where I think I'll convince you so lets just save ourselves the time and spend the evening reading socialist theory or binge watching TV or something instead.
No.26229
>>26227>What shall I do? Walk to Canossa? Mecca maybe? Lourdes? Al-Aqsa?I'm not asking you to go on a pilgrimage, I'm simply asking some mods to take feedback into account when moderating the place.
When users and apparently other team members say you are going too far and they don't understand the reasoning behind some bans, maybe it's a sign that you are micromanaging the userbase, and micromanagement is not a good thing.
Sometimes you need to take a step back instead of instinctively filling out the form to ban a shitposter because your feelings got hurt or you are on a power-trip. Ask other team members how they feel about banning such and such content if you aren't sure how people will react.
>instead of constantly going like "who watches the watchers", we should go "who does the work"Some work can be unproductive. I know it's not easy to moderate an imageboard, many bad actors are out there, but there is a difference between banning an IP range because some bots post illegal material, and banning legit users because they baited a bit too hard or expressed a controversial yet leftist opinion.
>You think this is a crisis, for me it is just normal.Glad to know the internal communication channels are still as harmonious and amicable as they were in the past.
No.26231
>>26230It's not like I have any power to do anything about the current situation, so whatever, do what you will, just throwing my 2 cents out there.
No.26232
>>26231I am showing restraint right now.
Like if someone explained to Gordon Ramsay how to make an omelette.
No.26233
>>26201Asshat. More like Blanquale.
No.26234
>>26220>>26226>"Why didn't you wake up at 3 A.M. in February to attend this Matrix meeting nobody attended?".Your snide comment is not only massively wrong and representative of your very unfair your assessment of the situation is. Why yes, I do think it is fair of me to ask Discomrade about the lack of participation and follow up to mod meetings, considering I wake at 4am to 6am on Sundays night to have hours long conversations till the sun rises. And whatever commitments I have made in the meetings I have followed through. Such as archiving all Ukraine thread and the crowdsourcing ideas and implementing /babel/ since 2023.
Your larger point about adhering to feedback from the userbase is really unfair. Userbase feedback is garbage like at least 60% of the times, usually from bad actors. The extreme ignorance falsehoods from userbase in attempting to describe the website and moderation team is enough to not take them. I mean the fucking idiot Sage,
>>26224 who made a big show about how he is never coming back to the website, naturally comes back to make a hugely false observation that moderation logs has only 4 to 5 names. Even the first page of the log reveals 9 distinct mods doing stuff(excluding Disco). Even Beriut is online.
Nor did you address my point despite claiming to read my post. They only hate the moderators that are active the most. These criticisms are not rooted in the structure of the moderation or its rules (Disco did have the correct criticisms) but against the personalities of the most active moderation. Name me an active moderator that the userbase doesn't hate? Caballo? I guarantee you if I had more time on this website, I will be an even worse boogeyman than Pask on this site. I have the least amount of patience for offenders and have often told the moderation team that /meta/ is meant to exhaust the whiners. I personally think any real and legitimate advise should be asked in a covert manner.
I do agree with your desire of what moderators should be btw. I just find you think too highly of the userbase, especially its most vocal elements.
No.26235
And also btw Sage, get a fucking job. Have sex. Take normal pills. Touch grass. Join an org and/or a party. Maybe then you know what it is like slowly feel distracted from your moderation duties.
No.26236
>>26234There is 9 names, for or 5 main ones and a handle that appear once or twice, some that have not appeared for a while. You cannot deny that the bulk of the logs come from a handful of people.
Do you realise how insane it is to say "the feedback is garbage which is why we don't listen to it"
Yes, that is exactly what we are saying, that is exactly the mentality more than one person, including your main fuckin Dev, is complaining about.
No, it isn't garbage, just because you don't like it and don't want to listen to it.
Yes, I left, haven't posted in a week or 2, I was the notified of this post on the board. Considering I left over meta issues this is highly relevant to, I thought I would come and state my case again.
You are literally saying "you think highly of the userbase and that is a bad thing" what sort of fucking let them eat cake mentality is this?
I really was trying to restrain myself and not come in here and say these things, but god damn.
For the last time also:
We are all on an image board, one which you moderate, in the pecking order of touching grass, you come dead last. Its just a fact, sure tripfags and namefags like myself are a close second, but at least I know that.
I have a job, a long term partner, and am active in several orgs doing good work.
My post wasn't hostile, I then posted another post stating that I didn't want to get hostile, then you post this aggressive shit. This is why people are leaving.
Whatever, I've already broken myself imposed rules. I shall not post any more ITT unless somebody wants to contact me about positive good faith advancements.
Bottom line, there are problems, they need to be fixed. Currently, they are not being fixed, denial being the main cause.
Bye Bye.
No.26239
>>26236>There is 9 names, for or 5 main ones and a handle that appear once or twice, some that have not appeared for a while. You cannot deny that the bulk of the logs come from a handful of people. Wow nice backpedaling. "4 or 5 names consistently in the mod logs." to "the bulk of the logs come from a handful of people.". It was about consistency in your original post and now by sleight of hand it is about activity?
>Do you realise how insane it is to say "the feedback is garbage which is why we don't listen to it" No, have you tried not listening to garbage feedback? It is great. Hell your criticism isn't even the same Discomrade.
>I thought I would come and state my case again. Nobody cares.
>You are literally saying "you think highly of the userbase and that is a bad thing" what sort of fucking let them eat cake mentality is this?Another rhetorical sleight of hand. I never said it is a bad thing to think highly of the userbase, but that he is too optimistic of their feedback.
>We are all on an image board, one which you moderate, in the pecking order of touching grass, you come dead last. Its just a fact, sure tripfags and namefags like myself are a close second, but at least I know that.I don't spend as much time on this website as you do.
>I have a job, a long term partner, and am active in several orgs doing good work. It doesn't sound like it considering how dismissive of you in our inactive mods. Hell even you claim that I am terminally online when I literally said I worked 52 hours a week.
>Bottom line, there are problems, they need to be fixed. Currently, they are not being fixed, denial being the main cause. Sure, I am just not going to listen to you about them or the proper solutions.
>>26238It was some attempt to take a position on an idpol issue I believe. I think I only supported the suspension, not the expulsion of Wvobbly. He doesn't have the same problem now so it is water under the bridge.
No.26240
>>26239>He doesn't have the same problem now so it is water under the bridge.Discomrade seems to think that he does.
No.26241
>>26240That Wvobbly is trying to impose an idpol position on certain issue?
No.26243
>>26241Yes. From a post wvobbly made with a mod tag only two weeks ago:
<Very unfortunately for you, we decide what "idpol" means as per the rules of the site.<Supporting trans people and their struggle against reactionary and bourgeois ideology - such as that which you carry water for - is wholly within the acceptable conduct for users, outright encouraged even>>>/leftypol/1402910 No.26245
>>26243I will let him know that the 'outright encouraged even' is too far but the general statement of defending trans people from reactionaries is a non-idpol statement.
No.26246
>>26245The issue here isn't wvobbly's intentions or the 'general sentiment' of his actions, which have - without question - always been in good faith. The dispute is about whether he can put aside his own personal beliefs and moderate in a fair and objective fashion, something which he has consistently been proven unable to do. Need I even mention the Ukraine thread?
No.26247
>>26246>The dispute is about whether he can put aside his own personal beliefs and moderate in a fair and objective fashion, something which he has consistently been proven unable to do.So you are not mad that he made that statement? Is this a thinly veiled attempt to criticize his moderation of the TOR user in that thread? The posts that do survived makes me think his deleted post is some bad faith posting and idpol.
>Need I even mention the Ukraine thread?Hardly the place for any stance made on idpol. Ukarine is a can of worms since we can't form a stable and coherent line beyond war bad.
No.26248
>>26247>So you are not mad that he made that statement?On the debate regarding trans rights, I generally put myself on the pro-trans side. Yet I'm able to recognize that some socialists can disagree with me on this without being "reactionaries" who must be silenced, take our man Paul Cockshott as an example.
>Is this a thinly veiled attempt to criticize his moderation of the TOR user in that thread?I only came across that thread after all those posts were deleted, so I have no idea what they contained. However that post made by wvobbly makes it clear that he was involved in the argument, and felt the need to use his powers as a mod to "have the last word" so to say. This is universally seen as bad practice for mods to do, I don't recall ever seeing yourself or any of the other mods do something so brazen in a /leftypol/ thread.
>Ukarine is a can of worms since we can't form a stable and coherent line beyond war bad.If you were present in those threads during the initial months of the invasion anyone with even marginally pro-ukraine views got the banhammer from wvobbly, while Z flags repeating the talking points of hardline Russian nationalists were left untouched. All while the rest of the mod team stood back and did nothing to stop him.
To expand on this point: earlier in this thread Discomrade refers to the conflict as an "inter-imperialist" war, suggesting that he significantly disagrees with the views of the aforementioned Russian nationalists. But he has never gone into the Ukraine thread and enforced this viewpoint on the pro-russian posters, because that is what a good moderator does. They have restraint and encourage debate. Can you not see why so many posters, and now discomrade, complained about wvobbly's conduct during this period?
Look, the dude is a bad moderator. And your initial inclination to want him gone before "they can get their shit together" has been vindicated. Well done, you predicted this shit two years ago, so stop sitting the fence man!
No.26250
>>26236>You cannot deny that the bulk of the logs come from a handful of people.Damn, a site which experiences regular spam has a lot of one name in the mod log regularly banning and deleting posts from said spammers - who knew?
Go back to leaving the site you clown.
>>26246The idea that banning idpol is something I embark on personally and not something that was decided internally by the mod team is silly - of course we're all generally pro-trans. And I don't think that "outright encouraged even" is incorrect either - one of the prospective /roulette/ topics we've thrown around in meetings is an /lgbt/ board, we've explicitly been allowing more threads about trans discussion as a general move towards having the topic be more open, etc.
>>26248>Yet I'm able to recognize that some socialists can disagree with me on this without being "reactionaries" who must be silenced, take our man Paul Cockshott as an example.Cockshot is not coming onto /leftypol/ and spamming YWNBAW and gore at random users everyday. It's just like the delusion around /pol/ - there are not some invisible crowd of /pol/acks putting up respectful arguements around why they want to have fascism, it is all clinically insane people like thing noticer extolling his hatred of cartoons.
The Ukraine thread was likewise action against what was largely people who were brigading the site to try and enforce an opinion, and it was a thread which I was enforcing because other mods did not feel like they were able to touch the topic due to a lack of knowledge on it. I would know, I asked several times for help with the thread, but was usually denied. Now, because I did all the weightlifting in some action to keep brigaders out of the thread, I've been mythologized as some kind of Russian hyper-nationalist. People who get banned - both justly and unjustly - tend to make up mythologies about the mods in the same way ancient humans would mythologize the winds, when usually we're just tired people trying to stop /pol/ or soyjack retards from forcing their dumbass opinions all over the site like a /leftpol/ repeat.
No.26253
[Still reading through]
>>26192>And this inactivity is reflected in our moderation.I think this is a different kind of activity to meeting/room attendance, I'll explain:
>Pask, wvobbly and moody are the most hated moderators because they are the most active. If we (including me of course) are more active on this website, we can make decisions that would be more uniformed and consistent. So that criticism can be more on the structure of moderation/website and not our personalities which this user base loves to be wrong about.This only applies for actions which are discussed in the meeting room. Post moderation, such as deleting and banning, usually aren't. Whether you are online or not, another mod can delete a post and you can't undelete it, at best you can start a conversation about it if you know what was deleted.
If you're judging by the mod log and by /meta/, 'activity' is who is deleting the most posts. If one mod is watching for 3 hours and sees only two posts they think needs deleting, and someone else is watching for 30 minutes but thinks fifteen of the posts need deleting, the second one appears the most active. (these are just pure example numbers to demonstrate the idea)
If we instead look at meeting attendance, the numbers are COMPLETELY different, picrel is 07-2022 to 03-2022 (note: it is necessarily biased by timezones but demonstrates why its important to know what you're measuring)
I wouldn't say they are hated because they are most active. I would propose they are most hated because they delete and bumplock and ban the most. Other mods like you and sindikat and Caballo are certainly active and engaged but are nowhere near as controversial.
>>26201>I've previously run on 5-6 hours per night of sleep for weeks and I know others who've done the same.Even after moving away from imageboards and modding, I've been running on that for months. Today was 4. It's normal to me at this point. Now, on top of that, wake up at 4am on a Monday because timezones suck, then try and sleep for a couple of hours after the meeting and go to work.
Yes, you're right, it is unhealthy.
(For anyone who doesn't read reply chains: I was not saying this is some impressive achievement or unique to me, I was saying this because I'm being accused of not showing interest in meetings and chat)
>>26204Tor access is a privilege. I wish that weren't the case: I am posting this via onion so don't think I don't appreciate it. But at the end of the day, it's an avenue for abuse and with the limited active staff we had and the high-abuse nature of this site, it's appealing to restrict it.
I wasn't there for the decision, and a combined absence of me and anti led to the block being in place longer than it should have been (mods were asking for it to be removed for weeks before I did).
>>26206>Even thingnoticer can make for entertaining contentHere's a take so hot I don't even know if I really believe it: thingnoticer is an established village idiot and it's fun to laugh at them. They should be embraced. Banning them without collateral damage is a worthless timesink.
>to be de-radicalized like that magazine wrote about.dollars&friend's article just seems more and more foreign as time goes on. It made some sense when it was written.
>>26207Having experience with the Webring
more than they could imagine, I don't see it as a solution.
We actually did request to join on anon.cafe, but a lot of people BAWWW'd about how they'd have to balance us out or some shit and their admin declined. Anyone who went to the ICUP matches observe that some people there are more triggered than even /pol/ and just start crying at our name alone. Remember, some of the biggest boards are /v/s and a /pol/ or two. And when I say /v/, I mean "they're still having near-daily gamergate generals". Real sad shit.
Long way to say, it would be hard to join. Maybe someone like sparts or erischan would do it for fun, but at the risk of being booted like 8moe.
No.26254
>>26253Time zone group meetings with minutes taken and questions adressed to other timezones?
No.26255
>>26248>Yet I'm able to recognize that some socialists can disagree with me on this without being "reactionaries" who must be silenced, take our man Paul Cockshott as an example.Cockshott is idpol-brained on trans people with his bad faith arguments against trans people. That poster isn't too different.
>However that post made by wvobbly makes it clear that he was involved in the argument, and felt the need to use his powers as a mod to "have the last word" so to say.Woefully untrue. You base this entire conversation on a statement you have no way of verifying? What a waste of time. And Disco and Caballo thinks people like you should be worth listening.
And you know what it is interesting. At least 6 distinct IPs were talking to the deleted posts, telling them that they are wrong and shit. Who do you think made reports to the moderation? If Wobbly didn't do anything, would these 6 people be on /meta/ complaining about our moderation? Do you want to have a debate with those 6 IPs about whether those posts should be deleted? The problem with having /meta/ is only dissatisfied users come here to complain, while satisfied users don't respond (or gets shamed as mods when they do).
>All while the rest of the mod team stood back and did nothing to stop him.Because we would done the same? I personally have kept mum on the issue since I live very far away from the conflict and meetings when we did speak about Ukraine we didn't form a hard stance on the issue (ie who to ban and why) and mildly agreed to focus on the form of the posts. If Disco makes the case that Wobbly is bad in handling the Ukarine, rejecting the things we agreed on on Ukraine then I might change my mind. But not from the likes of you.
No.26256
Also yea what Wobbly said is true
>>26250, the non-Europeans don't really know the full context of this stuff while the Europeans accept or at least acquiesce to what Wobbly was doing.
No.26257
>>26252Well my point is that most of us are too busy to have strong opinions on the website that we are satisfied of the situation. I am not satisfied but I know I cannot be as active as I want to be to really fix my satisfication.
>>26253I judge activity by a factor of things, presence in the mod chats, and presence in the website. Of course meeting attendance does help, but not really a factor. FWIW My rough list of activity
>Tier SPask Wobbly
>Tier ACaballo Sindikat
>Tier BMyy Dolphins Krates Misato
Tier C
Comet Classist Anti Beriut spurgo6
Tier D (aka ghost tier)
KGBeast Ausfag redlid
>I would propose they are most hated because they delete and bumplock and ban the most. Other mods like you and sindikat and Caballo are certainly active and engaged but are nowhere near as controversial.Because they are the most active in the most active timezones. Look at me right now. It is a Sunday afternoon for me and there are no reports for me to handle. And despite my chatter, I don't have the opportunity to moderate on my prime times, so I am less active and engaged than you think and therefore less controversial. Even Caballo catches a lot of flak for his relatively less acitve status. Sindikat is the only outlier though. Maybe coz he does not live in the West.
Hell, the one time I got some free time to moderate on Asia's prime time, I immediately got this
>>25888 complaining about my actions. Give me a month of no work, and I could make the userbase think I am a dictator.
No.26258
>>26252Complacency or compromise is necessary as well. I'd call you a fucking Trot but I don't think you are even that.
>>26250>make up mythologies about the mods in the same way ancient humans would mythologize the windsA capitalist is a character mask. I don't see why I shouldn't be. This outfit wears the shitposter well.
>>26254I think at this point these meetings are made up
>>26253>It's normal to me at this point.Sorry to hear but this would be an unproductive discussion.
>interest in meetings I think you are not showing interest in understanding, which is worse.
>the high-abuse nature of this site, it's appealing to restrict itLet me translate: Send less spammers.
but what's wrong with being hated? Why are you even engaging in politcs? You gotta fight someone or you aren't doing politics.
>thingnoticer This is the type of shit that annoys me. You've never looked at the other side of this. When "noticer" is unrestrained, he will post for many hours every day, absolutely dominating the conversation by sheer insanity.
You can have that every day if you want. Just stay on /pol/.
To you "controlling the discourse" is a worry. Well, the discourse is already being controlled. The game was rigged from the start. To me, there is only the simple fact that repetition means death.
Or let's continue the joke. Let's suppose Noticer shoots up Nickelodeon. There is no rational reason for me to care about that. But when he steps to me I need to have a response.
No.26260
>>26239>it is a bad thing to think highly of the userbaseIt is absolutely a bad thing to think highly of the (handful) eternal malcontents.
See, what you want to do is have a realistic appraisal of things. If you don't have that, you will run into problems. Like they do, over and over again. They being the people with the fixed idea of remaking this place in their image without doing anything (anything that makes any sense, I can see how you would identify with ThingNoticer at this point). It's just amusing to me at this stage. As if being that same cunt you've been for years will force reality to change.
You want it to be one way but it's the other way.
No.26262
Sorry you feel let down and like the site is headed down a negative path that you cannot fix. Best of luck with whatever else you work on. I don't want to get into publically sharing interpersonal opinions. I find that awkward and don't see any utility in that. Obviously I disagree with your behaviour but whoever is right what's the point in discussing my feelings on the matter in a public meta post? haha
I mean not to mention it obviously reflects bad on all of us if a mods or former mods are arguing publically. Casting dispersions, or engaging in personally directed criticisms. I also want to share that in my understanding it doesn't really matter. We are unpaid volunteers in this place because we want to assist with the functioning of the site. To be only involved for "ecelebrity" or power tripping or praise or anything like that would be something of a futile task. Although it indeed is attempted on imageboards sometimes. It would probably be more manageabe, in all it's limitations through moderating a popular fbi.gov or something where one can silence dissent more easily and insulate themselves more readily from criticism while maintaining a conspicious presence on the site. For example I think that mod tagging with every regular post made by a mod all over the site would be jarring to see. All that is to say that ok speak what's on your mind. I am not saying that people don't have legitimate agrievances although my own view obviously differs from your own and I would have my own criticisms to make. But the only things that really matter are measures taken to adjust, learn, adjust the mechanics of the site. And importantly basic respect between people, in order to create a nontoxic environment for volunteering and posting (which is also volunteering although it might not be thought of that way). I mean yeah I am feeling negative emotions about this post but knowing you as a volunteer and coworker for this long and seeing how much time and effort you have geniunely contributed to improving the lot of the site I think you are acting in good faith even though I personally disagree and think your behaviour in this thread in particular sofar is harmful and unfair. My opinion of you overall is still a positive one. shit I said I wasn't going to mention personal feelings haha
Getting that out of the way
Addressing specific concerns you have postulated here:
>removing the diversity and atmosphere that makes us different
<(Implying moderators removing non leftists or reactionary posts that are not breaking rules?)
I haven't seen this myself. As a second opinion I have observed that most rcently a libertarian poster was repeatedly banned, but on further isnpection this person was a long time serial ban evader. IIRC they were permabanned for spamming 2 or 3 years ago. On the other hand we had a new libertarian/ancap poster trying to debunk socialism and planned economies, we allowed this thread to stay up with no action taken inspite of several user reports made against it, as it was a non banned user acting in good faith. The idea that open discussion with right wingers here can be in good faith and perhaps even fruitful in some ways was proven correct. This guy did not spam, not even circural arguing and ignoring of new infromation. There was a geniune dialectical conversation between people holding sincere but differing worldviews and understandings. In the end the guy even said he seriously reconsidered his previous right wing beliefs and was looking into the work of Paul Cockshott.
>And I see blatant contradictions almost every day in the public log and /meta/, such as the most active mods regularly banning posts that didn't violate a single rule and weren't even something trollish or reactionary, it's simply an opinion they thought was too bad
In my own observations I disagree that this has occured. If it has: it is a problem in need of addressing. I think it would be best to share some specific examples of this that you or anyone else are aware of, so that this issue can be fixed, as again, that is a problem in need of addressing.
I could be wrong and there is no harm in discussing it either way, only greater understanding and conflict resolution one way or another.
On the whole I don't see utility from discussing the personal character of people or producing or responding to unspecific criticisms that are not actionable. While generalized complaints and protests are an opportunity for reflection, after speaking everything on one's mind it is necessary for all parties involved in dialogue to focus on specific issues and actions to take to deal with them. This is to avoid circular argumentation that doesn't get anywhere and exhausting the energy of people whom contribute their labour work to the site be it through modding, posting, etc. People whom keep in mind are likely acting in good faith. Of course trolls will flock to any drama like flies to shit but how would that be exceptional? People it's best to assume good faith with people when their behaviour objectively seems to be in good faith. Let's not waste our creative and indeed critical (which is also creative) energies on squabbling to no end huh?
No.26264
>>26238do you realize how insane it appears to anyone to be saving screenshots from two years ago about internet jannies you
still obsessively hate? lmao
No.26267
I had typed out a lengthy post on the fact that there had indeed been cases of people being banned specifically without breaking rules. That these cases had been appealed. That this is a sign that such inappropriate bans, which will always occur sometimes are being detected.
**I discussed the 3 avenue appeal process: appeal form, meta, congress in the matrix
I discussed here the strengths and avenues for improvement of these processes, specifically I think it would be beneficial to stick the tor node in the congress room to be publicly available to non-matrix users.**
Another one I would like to discuss is peer-review. Anyone can audit the mod log in general and share their opinions :D this means jannies, non janny users, glow in the dark trolls… you have it ;)
Anyways TLDR; my machine keeps crashing. I am reserving this space to remind myself and for a future edit once my shit is sorted if I feel up for it
edit for spoilers fix
No.26284
tl;dr janny is mad bc people dont want brocialists on the board
No.26285
tl;dr jannies are coping about being reckless Tulcels and being called out for it
No.26286
i don't care about janny infighting, is this site actually growing in traffic lately? or is it stagnating/decreasing?
No.26289
>>26286>is this site actually growing in traffic lately? or is it stagnating/decreasing?Discomrade (the janny who just bailed citing site stagnation as a reason) was the main mod who was tracking the data on site activity. Do with that information what you will.
No.26291
^that he's a lazy bastard, no?
That was the answer
No.26292
why is it the most active mods openly detest the userbase
No.26293
>>26292I only detest people that consistently and constantly refuse to even try to act like a normal person
No.26295
>>26294Now that sounds like an interesting question. There is two schools of thought.
Option 1) Whoever has the power to decide
Option 2) It is a question of negotiation. You could call it a consensus. As in consensus building or consensus democracy. But I don't know anything about these big words. I am just a simple enforcer. I like long walks on the beach and domestic violence.
No.26296
>>26286>>26289No it was Anti. Last time he talked about it was doing alright. We shifted to looking at pph when we allowed VPNs and TOR btw.
t. Comet
No.26300
Haha buy dumb faggot the site will move on without you
No.26301
I got another joke for you
Hell is an anarchist board administered by Marxist-Leninists
Heaven is a Marxist-Leninist board administered by anarchists
No.26302
The jannies seethe about "no idpol allowed" but actually only allow their version of idpol
No.26303
>>26184>like the idpol rule loosening up without the need for self-censorship on supporting gay or trans people to quiet down /pol/ brigading, but that is to be expected in the shift of environment. We do not tolerate legitimate transphobia or homophobia in the same ways we never did, because it was fundamentally anti-communist in the same way being antisemitic is. Net, it has allowed for much more positive discussions of the phenomenon in relation to material history.case in point to my post above
No.26304
>>26303Not everyone is perpetually stuck
and that's a good thing
No.26305
>>26304Pretending like LGBT has anything to do with communism - either in an good or bad fashion - is just asinine. No need to hide behind that veil. They should just come forward and say "we prefer societal views XYZ and you will get banned if you insult these specific groups" rather than basically saying "THIS IS THE IMMORTAL TRUTH OF MARXISM-LENINISM GUIDING OUR ACTIONS" as if it's some gospel
No.26306
>>26305I don't think there is a serious discussion to be had here. You should like meditate on oppression or something.
No.26307
>>26306This site turned into the same SJW fest as any other Angloid "leftist" media space. In the end, everything the terminally online anime fags touch turns into the same sterile bullshit. Like the OP said, there is nothing differentiating this website from any other leftist space like Chapo Talk and the likes
No.26308
>>26307Ok bro
sorry you're feeling that way
No.26309
>>26307Wrong, we have Tulcels, this is their containment website
No.26310
>>26307>SJW festwhoa a time traveler from the 2010s
No.26318
>>26085 >TFW a mod confirms that the site moderation has become reddit-tierAnd people still defend the abusive moderation by the liberalwombble, even though they regularly delete critical posts about them. This really is depressing, since leftypol used to be THE site for leftists sick of liberalism to go chat on & be able to have a homebase from where they could combat /pol/'s toxic nature. FFS 2 years ago, before this shit storm really hit the fan, leftypol had enough credibility as a free forum that it took on a full out
/pol/ raid over the poljak meme & made them go back crying. Today leftypol is just a joke to them.
No.26319
>>26310 >being an oldfag is to be from 2010s NTA but 2019 was 4 years ago, & SJW has still been used.
No.26324
Why is it that this place gets worse every time I come back to it?
All I ever wanted was a space for leftists to have discussions without being subject to heavy moderation.
No.26327
>>26255>At least 6 distinct IPs were talking to the deleted posts, telling them that they are wrong and shit. Who do you think made reports to the moderation? If Wobbly didn't do anything, would these 6 people be on /meta/ complaining about our moderation? Hopefully. Then we can tell them
why being wrong and unpopular isn't against the rules, and has never been against the rules.
>Because we would done the same?Nope.
In fact, other mods
did raise the issue, that's why we brought up the topic in meetings at all.
>If Disco makes the case […] then I might change my mind. But not from the likes of you.So, on an anonymous imageboard, you're really deciding if a post is worth considering based on whether a namefag [me] makes the case?
what the fuck.
>>26262I'm glad you appreciate the work I've done, and I hope you know I also appreciate you likewise. Good luck in the future.
>I mean not to mention it obviously reflects bad on all of us if a mods or former mods are arguing publicly.This is not a bad thing. The first step is admitting we have a problem. Denial and defensiveness is what put us in this situation, and it's why legitimate feedback and criticism is repeatedly being ignored and brushed off even in this thread.
>For example I think that mod tagging with every regular post made by a mod all over the siteFor every post? It would be
bad, an appeal to authority. Even if not meant that way, it is.
For every moderation-related post? Good policy. We are privileged users and should be explaining our decisions which affect others.
And if people complain, that's legitimate feedback. And that removes the issue Comet raised about /meta/ not being representative of the 'silent majority' (who we literally can't know if they exist or not if they are silent).
><(Implying moderators removing non leftists or reactionary posts that are not breaking rules?)I've seen it happen, so I'm no longer implying it and now firmly stating it. Some moderators have been removing non-leftists or reactionary posts that are not breaking rules. Even when made by leftists.
Now, you mentioned a counter-example, like a lolbert poster this year who was capable of very civil discussion. This is good that we allowed the thread, and as you've said there was some positive outcomes of it.
However, I see it as the exception rather than typical that it was allowed. If the OP were a little less careful and more inline with the playful tone of the rest of the board, or said something self-affirming like "Prove me wrong", I think it would have been deleted or bumplocked within the hour, at least if it wasn't in a lax timezone and managed to reach 30 replies before 'mods are awake' o'clock. Naturally, I cannot prove this with specific examples (other than those people decided to screencap in /meta/) since it's based on months of watching posts getting quickly deleted or surviving, but based on experience I really do believe it's the case. Threads and users which were constructive and fun were still on the site in 2020 and disappeared by 2022.
>I think it would be best to share some specific examples of this that you or anyone else are aware ofThere is a thread with many, many examples in /meta/, and a very neglectful mod log regularly filled with vague ban reasons unrelated to site rules.
Even today, within a week of me explicitly raising concerns, it's business as usual on this issue. Picrel. There were other dubious reasons but since we can't tell what was in the posts, we don't know if they made any sense or not. Which, again, is an issue I raised in mod meeting when I requested mods to stop being vague with ban reasons. In one ear, out the other.
>>26264>going into /assembly/ and screenshotting a relevant post is insaneimma have to disagree pask, that's supplying evidence to support a claim.
>>26267>That this is a sign that such inappropriate bans, which will always occur sometimes are being detectedYep, that's good, but my point is that inappropriate bans are normal and nearly daily, and are often being treated by pask et al with outright disrespect. The appeal process cannot make up for that.
>Anyone can audit the mod log in general and share their opinionsYep, to a point. Some mods use appropriate ban reasons, allowing the mod log to be somewhat effective as a review tool. However, it is habitual and frequent and normal that other mods, despite repeated and specific complaints by both me and by /meta/ users, are to this day writing ban reasons like 'hahahaha' and 'insane' and 'spam' on non-spam.
Audit that. Protip: we can't. Not unless someone had the foresight to screencap the thread and share it to /meta/, and that's not a reasonable expectation.
>edit for spoilers fixYeah they don't work across a newline.
>>26286Still in decline.
In the last six months, we are around 1170 total /leftypol/ posts per day on average. You can confirm this by finding a post number from today, and a post number from a previous date, taking the difference and dividing by the number of days in between them.
On the first day of this year, that number was 1500.
Half way through last year, that number was 2066.
If we take the current average daily post rate from 2023-01-01 to 2023-04-07 (1106 PPD) and extrapolate it linearly (no increase or decline) to July to make the graph consistent, picrel is historical post rates.
We haven't seen rates drop this low since the 8chan modtripping purges.
No.26328
>>26087muh leftypol "essence"
see you next week fag
No.26329
>>26324>without being subject to heavy moderationYou can go to social media or many of the dozens of 4chin/8gag clones around.
No.26330
>>26319Eternal 2016-er acting like that's a good thing LMAO
No.26331
Lmao @ that resignation. Absolutely nothing of value was lost.
No.26332
>>26094>Messiah complex fucking faggotAnd he has the gall to shit on other mods too!
No.26334
>>26328>>26329>>26330>>26331>>26332>unique ips didn't even go up by onehi pask
No.26336
>>26334ever heard of the tor browser
No.26338
>>26333if you think websites are comparable to countries youre a bit silly
imageboards shouldnt cater to everyone
No.26340
>>26338*individual imageboards shouldnt cater to everyone
btw
No.26343
OMG SOME RANDOM NICHE FORUM I WASTE MY LIFE ON IS LIIIIIIIITERALLY REDDIT/TWITTER
yes i will keep posting on it because my time has zero value i am a normal guy
No.26344
>>26334That is literally not me tho (it sounds like my evil twin like if I wasn't so damn professional)
>>26327>have to disagree paskThat is literally not me either.
Not even trying to gloat but since we are all being honest now, I have started enjoying this. I really hate it when people try to knife me in the back but a frontal assault is alright with me. So it feels like this backfired on you. But don't blame yourself, exercising pressure is hard.
>There were other dubious reasons but since we can't tell what was in the posts, we don't know if they made any sense or not. You have a problematic mentality. Nothing makes any sense, stop asking questions, just execute orders.
>deciding if a post is worth considering based on [authority, knowledge and a bunch of other factors]Absolutely, the worth of information is being considered on a meta level (even the dumbest people on earth consider whether to trust a source or not). this is just funny like, does this little person have any idea what they are talking about or are they insane etc. You don't understand source examination on a basic level. You are absolutely spooked by so-called democracy and the majority as Coma was or is and that is amusing as well. Gullible people, it's what makes the world run.
The 'hahahaha' ban was for one of our regular spammers and it was just my immediate reaction. I did later correct it to spam but I don't remember whether he seen it. I don't even think about it, I just delete and move on to delete the next post, you can't understand this because you think every post is like the Dead Sea Scrolls and we have to preserve the word vomit or society will collapse.
NB: I could have put like "id/pol/" or "derail attempt" there and would be fully within my so-called rights to remove this content. I have never broken any rule unless it was funny at the time.
I understand that you are diligent but this means people can twist you into knots (like using your own weapon against you, see?). No, not everything and everyone's idea should be considered. You need to prioritize and decide what to spend your time on.
>I cannot prove this with specific examples (other than those people decided to screencap in /meta/) since it's based on months of watching posts getting quickly deleted or surviving, but based on experience I really do believe it's the case.I believe you that you are good at cataloging. Now interpreting information on the other hand, obviously we disagree there.
>In one ear, out the other.I know you are but what am I? Eh chief.
>>26341>get involved only when the rules are explicitly brokenOh my god dude
You know this board is called /meta/ but no one here is really capable of meta discussion.
>declineJust as an aside, I've run my own numbers and determined it to be not catastrophic. Since summer (22) or so I found PpM (posts per month) is between 30k and 50k ish (/leftypol/ only, siberia I assume stays the same).
No.26345
>>26333Eh, the reason why I don't live in China but in [redacted] is definitely partly laziness but also bc I know all the rules here and teaching an old dog new tricks and so on
No.26346
Audit deez nuts
No.26349
>>26344it's so obvious that you get bullied and eat shit IRL. you're not funny, you're not clever, you're annoying. no wonder you get slapped around on the regular.
delete my post so I know I'm right, bitch
No.26350
>>26349You're mom would make the opposite case
No.26351
>>26327This graph looks like it tends to peak around the borgerland presidential election cycle. I appreciate that 2016-2 is lower than 2017, which would seem to go against that narrative, but I'm not saying there aren't other factors.
No.26353
>>26327>Then we can tell them why being wrong and unpopular isn't against the rules, and has never been against the rules.lol im glad a "marketplace of ideas" jackass isnt part of the staff anymore
No.26355
what a fucking loser lmao
No.26358
>>26329Are you an idiot?
I want leftypol to be better, and your response is "don't like it, go somewhere else". Are you dense?
I like leftypol, I prefer leftypol to nearly everywhere else, I enjoy chatting with people here. Its because I like leftypol that I want it to be better.
Do you think leftypol has improved over time? Do you think a stricter ban policy will improve it more? Do you think that unstable and unaccountable moderation is an improvement?
Fuck you, I would rather touch grass.
No.26363
>>26338I mean the staff are able to use this place to larp as a political party and the staff larp as politicians or nkvd operators
No.26365
>>26359
>rent free
something which you would know a lot about of course.
No.26370
Anti-Idpol 天安门大屠杀 The Janny Massacre 动态网自由门 Leebait 天安门 Loli Posting天安门法 soyboys 轮功李洪 /GET/ 志 Doing it for free 六四天 Tulcels安门事件 Tendies 反右派斗争 Chadposting 大跃进政策 >thoughposting 文 动态网自 Soyposting 由门天安门天 CP 安门 Furrypol 法轮功李洪志 Xaekai 六四天安门事件 Unemployment office 天安门大屠杀 Huge backlog of reports 反右派斗争 MLP 大跃进政策 No girlfriend 文化大革命 Chan culture 人权 /mlp/ 大跃安门进政策 Troonï Janny UwU
No.26374
Shitty schizo mods have killed Leftypol. It's the same thing every time, Pro-Idpol, Radlib/Anarkiddie, Campist mods get into positions of power then start banning anyone they disagree with, even when the positions are completely in the realm of Socialist discourse, Marxist analysis etc.
The amount of times I've gotten banned for simply criticising Russian tactics in Ukraine, or criticising Liberal Idpol from a Materialist Marxist position at this point is just fucking ridiculous. At this point, I just expect I'll get a week ban for literally any of my posts, despite never breaking the rules and always posting from a Marxist position. Hell I had my last houses IP literally banned for a *year* for simply criticising Putin.
This is one of the most also schizo things about this shit, You have to accept that Ukraine is a satanic, transhumanist, LGBT state forcing Western Liberal Satanism on Russian minorities or you will get banned, but if you dare criticise Liberal LGBT idpol politics, you get banned.
How in fuck schizo Radlib anti-Marxist retard Pasquale became a mod is fucking beyond me.
No.26376
>>26087>nooo you cant just ban reactionary shitting up the boardagree to disagree. 99% of reactionary libs coming here are either not interested in genuine discussion, or just spit out straight propaganda and cant accept the US state dpt might lie sometimes.
>There are literally hundreds of other active sites, even other imageboards, for socialists and anarchistslol no, but go there then
No.26382
>>26374Is this the tulcel spammer?
No.26411
Somehow it did seem as though the current iteration of this site had gone too much time without any prominent attempts at splits, cultural revolution, or coups.
Let Ismail be the enlightened supreme leader of this site anyways already.
Also to ban people from the meta board so that they can't appeal should be prohibited.
No.26413
>>26374Can you cite an example of "pro-idpol"? Can you show an example of a " materialist Marxist " critique of LGBT idpol or whatever? Genuinely interested.
No.26425
>>26382lol no, the Tulcel spammer is in bed with the Jannies through their Element chat.
Why do you think there is so much posturing about a filter that never gets implemented?
No.26426
>>26411bienvenidoainternet has a system where global bans still let you post on the meta board unless your IP also has a ban there, idk why more imageboards dont implement that
No.26427
>>26426Porque los gringos pendejos que son responsables por este sitio tienen un palo metido en el culo sobre su "Modocracy" y la Constitución que ni siquiera saben como implementar o interpretar, queride Baisane
No.26429
>>26427Ich bin Kanacke, Bruder und kein Gringo.
bad cop
hahaha
bad cop
HAHAHAHAHA
No.26430
>>26428All of it is true though, go look at their chat history
No.26431
>>26427Ya siéntese señora.
>>26426It's really old software written by hobbyists. You're free to submit a PR, if you wish.
No.26436
>>26431>really old software written by hobbyistslmfao it's still in active development, what a weak excuse brah
No.26439
>>26436How much time do you need to write the change? Thanks for volunteering :)
No.26441
>>26436Hey "brah" still waiting for your PR.
No.26442
>this thread and this thread only has a custom themewitchcraft
>>26087but dumb shit being rewarded by a ben is half the fun
No.26453
>>26445We have a new developer on the staff now. Though I agree this is a blow.
No.26456
>>26455>you want my bans to become even more nonsensical and retarded>YOU THINK I'M RETARDED HUH?>YOU THINK I'M NONSENSICAL?!>YOU THINK I'VE GONE OFF THE RAILS???>I'LL FUCKING SHOW YOU WHAT IS RETARDED AND UNSENSICAL!!!this person is a mod.
No.26479
I'm convinced this site is psyoped and controlled opposition to hell and back
I know you're there, I know you get off to this, I know the decades old playbook
No.26480
>>26479>I know the decades old playbookWow me too. Did you know the NSA has all your data. Stay woke, brudda
No.26484
It's funny that people are proud that this place is a successor to a successor to an 8chan board. Like it's something that you should uphold.
No.26485
>>26484Yet you post here
Curious
No.26492
>>26087What a load of shit tbh. If anything the board has grown into echo chambers for open reactionaries and anti communists. It's infected with Haz fans, Putin simps and Deng Defenders. The quality of posting is much worse and obvious spammers and derailers aren't dealt with.
>And finally there is an admin who, last time they saw drama in the staff (April 2021), resigned instead of booting the obvious troublemaker Zul. So there's no expectation of any top-down action to fix this slow crisis.If you're talking about me, you're wrong. Firstly, we had collective decision making. If you wanted to do shit like kick a mod, you should have brought it up. Secondly, i quit because of the fucking chaotic nature of this fucking mod team. I could not go half a day without someone making unilateral decisions and me having to do damage control. This, in addition to the stress of my real life, in addition to the declining quality of the board, trying to do irl activism, in addition to having to coup an entire site from my real life friend to try and save it from outright actual Nazis being allowed to have their own boards with their own mod team, made me quit, so don't pull the "you never made top down decisions to save the site".
The site is done. It's quality has never been lower. If I were admin I would pull the plug. It's become a board for astroturfed crypto fascists to spread their ideology under the guise of anti imperialism and there is almost no usefull conversations to be had.
The solution is not "less moderation", the solution is to ban the openly non communist group shitting up the entire board. Every thread gets derailed to hell. But a better solution would be to just replace the site with a single page listing links to admission forms for socialist parties in every country and telling users to go do something for the cause.
The only reason I'm still here is to occasionally tell dengoids to kill themselves.
No.26493
>>26492oh look its the liberal having a meltdown in the ukraine thread
lol, lmao
No.26494
>>26493I haven't opened that thread in a month niffo
No.26497
>>26329bro what
>try to cultivate a forum for left wing discussion? fuck that, fuck taking advantage of the opportunity hereWhy would anybody with an attitude like that even want to be a mod/admin? I hope none do. The attitude should be to draw more users and make the site better, why else would you put up with having the role?
No.26501
>>26351There are of course other factors, you're right. And, with just simple numerical analysis it's hard to determine causes. So we have to draw on our experience, and what little others say of their experiences.
Both site coups also had immediate effects which we never truly recovered from. So there's another major factor compounding 2021-1 and 2021-2, and the start of Russia-Ukraine open warfare bumping 2022-1. But as you can see, especially with finer-grained graphs, events cause spikes, and you will see the baseline move up with any retention. I see the graph as showing the retention of the 2020 election and of Ukraine declining. I doubt we'll get another opportunity for growth like that until late 2024, and even then it's just boring Biden and DeSantis, and I really feel like we've destroyed much of our drive to create and embrace cultural memes, beyond a few people forcing their own ones. We barely even share screencaps of good posts any more, and that takes almost no effort.
Quality control failed.
No.26503
>>26442>but dumb shit being rewarded by a ben is half the funSure, if the ban is not for 4 weeks and gets your whole IP address history nuked.
We've even had times where a general thread got hit in collateral damage and had to be manually restored from a backup.
>>26436Look at Hotwheels aka copypaste (literally the vichan official maintainer for many years) posts above. They, themself, tell people "PLEASE STOP USING VICHAN", "Every major maintainer had a drug problem when they were writing it", "The source code doesn't even follow extremely basic principles of software development".
Listen to this video. - - >
>>26146It literally said for years it was not in active development in the README, and Hotwheels (reasonably!) denied new features to try and keep it stable.
>>26454Luther Blissett.
No.26505
>>26492>If you're talking about me, you're wrong.I was not talking about you. I am talking about the admin Krates. Image is already public, not a leak, and was used when discussing the (failed) vote to kick Zul shortly after in mid-April 2021.
I don't dislike them or anything, but as explained, they have demonstrated they are unlikely to help get us out of this situation.
>Firstly, we had collective decision making. If you wanted to do shit like kick a mod, you should have brought it up.As I said ITT, when I raised issues with behaviours of the mod team practices, like vague ban messages or abusing them to send personal messages, they were ignored by some mods within the week regardless of other mods in the meeting agreeing it was a problem. Pask is even proudly bragging about doing it now. (
>>26455 )
When I raised more direct complaints about the behaviours of wobbly and pask and why they are so damaging, almost all the replies were either trivializing the issues or expressing panic at the idea of mod drama rising.
So, what then? Call a vote in a room where most of the people have made it clear they won't support it, either out of not seeing it as a big enough issue to kick, or out of drama avoidance? In a room that talked us out of even temporarily suspending a mod who defaced and stickied an OP that didn't break any rules? Yeah, it would be pointless.
At that point I had made it clear that this was something I felt strongly about, so unfortunately starting such a discussion would just come off as making an implicit threat of the main dev leaving or possibly even holding the site ransom if they don't get their way (which, while it would not have happened, it would be a reasonable concern for the staff: see - zer0). That's drama I don't fucking need or even have time for.
>Secondly, i quit because of the fucking chaotic nature of this fucking mod team. I could not go half a day without someone making unilateral decisions and me having to do damage control.Moderation never changes. If I didn't make it clear, my situation mirrored this. It's fucking tiring.
Caballo is the only damage control guy left, it would seem.
>But a better solution would be to just replace the site with a single page listing links to admission forms for socialist parties in every country and telling users to go do something for the cause.You know how there were those protest website blackouts like 10 years ago, when people would shutdown their site for a day to protest net neutrality? I'd like one of those for May Day. I know it won't happen, but it's a nice fantasy.
No.26506
>>26505>le quiet protest against censorshipGod, that is lame. I've heard a theory about censorship that it forces artistes to git gud, as it were.
Yeah, it's all very Nietzschean but there are people in the world that think like that. You know, there are many different kinds of perspectives.
No.26507
>>26492Rat I like you but
>fucking chaotic nature of this fucking mod teamWell hold on there champ, isn't this your fault? If we trace our steps, the point where things stopped being rigid (not that they weren't shit but not in a chaotic way) and started being chaotic was when you decided that things should not be decided dictatorially.
>telling users to go do something for the cause.Yeah, it would be nice if everyone got off the internet but that is not going to happen.
>obvious spammers and derailers aren't dealt withThere is a pattern of that going back to the beginning of the board.
>having to coup an entire site from my real life friend to try and save it from outright actual Nazis being allowed to have their own boards with their own mod team>this site is doneThe whole history of this website is like a drawn-out Monty Python gag. I don't think it will die because it's too funny to do so.
Anyways, should it die, it will always be in our heart.
>>26497>The attitude should be to draw more users>should beFirst, lol
Second, Henry Ford, division of labor
basically, not my department
The guys responsible for cleaning up always have a different mentality than the ones that don't. Not caring is fun, you could maybe go as far as to say, liberating. Easy as well. Obnoxious, in many cases.
On to the serious response (ignore if you are here for comedy)
>>26501>QC failed. Shoot the QC department.-Stalin if he was a game developer
>>26505Whoever uses light mode must have lost their mind. I propose anyone using light mode be purged.
>Pask is even proudly braggingOh please, I was just trying to figure out to what extent you are serious. I guess you're not making a joke? Well, now I know. It's good to know, knowing is half the battle.
I don't really understand why you have such a strong dislike of me but ok.
>Moderation never changes.Everything always changes. Bruh
Is this a joke?
>expressing panic at the idea of mod drama rising>If I didn't make it clear, my situation mirrored this. It's fucking tiring.That's pretty funny. I sorta forgot where I was going with this and I can't really be bothered to try to pick it up again. I think you can't have it both ways. You have to choose a way and try to see it through. Point is, you can't depose Vaas without becoming Vaas so I ain't worried.
My mindset is "if I am a dictator, depose me". I have made jokes about being a villain for a long time but people don't really get them.
Yet, there are those that see me as their villain but a different kind of villain. It's like, they can believe that I am like a movie villain but they can't believe I know that? Bloody weird, backwards thinking. Arrogance, I think, should be punished.
You wanna know the truth? Are you ready for the truth at this point?
All this time I've been an anarchist pretending to be a Stalinist. See, I wanted to demonstrate in a comprehensive manner why authoritarianism was a bad idea but the joke went out of control. The problem started when no one really got the joke and then I felt I had to continue the joke and so on and on it went. Anyway, now we are here at this point where there are apparently are people convinced, absolutely convinced I am to a large extent responsible for the state of the board even though that is impossible. As in physically, theoretically and practically impossible. The people that think that tend to not be very smart tho, they think of internet sites in terms of reddit/not reddit, so that was also very confusing to me since I've never been on reddit in any real capacity.
No.26508
>>26507>Well hold on there champ, isn't this your fault? If we trace our steps, the point where things stopped being rigid (not that they weren't shit but not in a chaotic way) and started being chaotic was when you decided that things should not be decided dictatorially.There isn't a binary choice between dictatorships and chaos. Irl people ask if something if ok with everyone before doing something radically different. Maybe we ought to have set clearer rules on how things are decided and consequences For breaking said rules, but that was almost like 3 years ago? And I didn't have any experience running an org. That, the constant chaos on a daily basis and constantly needing to damage control either fights or mod action, was a main factor in why i quit.
I would have done it differently if I had the experience of real life organising I have now. But at this point I have no interest on modding this site anymore, I have enough usefull things to do with irl activism.
No.26509
>>26508>There isn't a binary choice between dictatorships and chaosYes and no. I'd say there is an element of chaos in 'tyranny' and vice versa (like some dialectical shit or something, I don't fucking know).
Sovereign is he who decides the exception. Which is to say a tyrant is a tyrant because there is no law that could hold them. They are unfettered. People growing up democratic citizens don't like that. But it is fun.
Let's say the capitalists write the laws but they also break their own laws. I think we can agree on that. But that's kinda mad, isn't it? Caligula and Catherine the Great probably both absolute nutters. I identify more with Catherine because she didn't get assassinated.
Back to the topic of rules. There are no rules so good that someone can't find a way around them. Well, they can at least hold up the works, waste the volunteers' time, by arguing their "case" for weeks, as people have done.
Those people are called Karens.
>the constant chaos on a daily basis and constantly needing to damage control either fights or mod action, was a main factor in why i quitWould have been my reason for quitting, had I done that. I've always been an enforcer (or a realist or a pragmatist) at heart, not a lawyer so that sort of stuff also had been tiring to me.
>>26504>within a weekActually, it was ignored immediately. But then me saying I'd stop posting on /meta/ is not 'policy'.
Problem is, when I see a good joke I feel I have to go for it.
I do feel bad about having, I dunno, played Caballo or something (I did think of stopping interaction with you guys but then it's kinda eh when people talk about you)
btw I have at this point saved my previous post (the Octavia RP one, yes that's me) so it'd be useless to delete it, I write them for myself more than for anyone else as well
No.26510
>>26111Literally everytime I've been banned for bullshit was by either pasq or wvobly.
Everytime I had to hop on tor to complain on /meta/, and I think discomrade is the reason this IP is still usable.
I swear these mods are fucking nuts. One of them banned me for saying "ew" to an ugly animal on /siberia/.
I barely post anymore now, just lurk for the BNA.
Thanks for all your work disc.
No.26511
>>26510And now he's gone
The light has left us
Woe is us, the oppressed, the persecuted
blah blah etc.
No.26512
>>26511If you don't want me and a couple hundred other users to express our opinions, so be it. I'll just stop posting entirely and watch the BNA drops.
Have a nice night anon.
No.26513
>>26512I wish you'd do better and apply yourself. People that continuously half-ass everything, they are damn near impossible to work with. That's the reason at this point I think it's better to be seen as stark-raving mad than whatever the hell this is.
No.26514
>>26492While there are many crypto-reactionaries in the Ukraine thread, they are insta-banned elsewhere and always cry on /meta/ that they can't be edgy bigots.
As for the Ukraine threads position on anti-imperialism and Russia, I fail to see any issue with it, and on the contrary, those that reject this position, have brought up poor arguments, liberal deviations (ultra left, etc), and have not addressed the well thought out arguments of the Ukraine thread people, and of leftists who have published on the matter all over the world.
Regarding you "anti-dengism" I can only understand this as further anti-anti-colonialism, which just cycles back to an implicit support for colonial ambitions of the west. I sincerely don't understand how you can look at the incredible contributions of China in the past 50 years and your reaction to them is "nah, fuck China, fuck deng". Do you do the same to all socialist and social democratic projects in the periphery? I suspect you do, unless the country failed.
It seems that the problems you see in the board are within yourself.
No.26515
>>26514>Regarding you "anti-dengism" I can only understand this as further anti-anti-colonialism, which just cycles back to an implicit support for colonial ambitions of the west. I sincerely don't understand how you can look at the incredible contributions of China in the past 50 years and your reaction to them is "nah, fuck China, fuck deng". Do you do the same to all socialist and social democratic projects in the periphery? I suspect you do, unless the country failed. No dummy, I oppose Deng for the same reason I oppose gorby. They aren't socialist and reverted progress made by their much better predecessors. China and mao are fine, dengism is continuous increasing re-establishment of capitalism.
No.26516
>>26515>They aren't socialistWhy? Deng was a self professed socialist.
>reverted progress made by their much better predecessors. Which progress was reverted? China has industrialized greatly. Explain exactly what was "reverted".
>dengism is continuous increasing re-establishment of capitalism.How? Reestablishment in what way?
No.26517
Don't worry guys, the mods will fix the site in two more weeks
No.26519
>>26500Yea you were one of the cooler mod in the bunkerchan era.
No.26520
>>26507>Arrogance, I think, should be punished.he said, without a hint of irony.
No.26522
>>26516>Why? Deng was a self professed socialist. So was Gorby
>Which progress was reverted? China has industrialized greatly. Explain exactly what was "reverted".Industrialization =/= socialism. Hitler also greatly industrialised Germany. Singapore also greatly industrialised. South Korea also greatly industrialised.
>Reestablishment in what way?Abolishing workers power
Breaking down of collective farms in favour of private ownership
Liberalisation of the economy
Opening party membership to billionaires
Sabotaging marxist education by increasingly de-emphasising class struggle, the core of what marxism is, in favour of developmental economism
Among others
No.26523
>>26492Aren't you the literal European MAGAcommunist retard?
No.26524
>>26523No?
What the fuck are you talking about?
No.26526
>>26524Pretty sure I saw "Comrade Rat" in the Element doing damage control Infrared at some point. I'm trying to remember what it was exactly. Something to the effect of being completely open to hosting/platforming Haz/Infrared for some event. I was then like "wtf" because he had said he lived in Europe and had gone on and on about how none of his compatriots understood his flawless line or something (and then me going "oh the irony").
I'm like 90% sure of this.
No.26527
>>26526>Something to the effect of being completely open to hosting/platforming Haz/Infrared for some eventNTA but I don't see the problem with this. It sounds like you're the one with the issue here.
No.26528
>>26527YWNBAC (you will never be a communist)
No.26529
>>26528This is what disco is talking about wvobbly, you're too partisan in your specific ideological beliefs. Sometimes arguing with you feels no different to debating an r/socialism trot.
No.26530
>>26529I'm neither, just an observant poster.
No.26531
>>26519Get back to work and handle the Tulcels pestering this website
No.26532
>>26507>Anyways, should it die, it will always be in our heart.Die a tragedy, or live long enough to become a farce
No.26533
>>26531Why don’t you report them when they break the rules?
No.26534
>>26526That was a long time ago and we got invited to promote ourselves on Agent Kochinski's stream. We never hosted him or an event.
Agent Kochinski is a cia asset and Haz is a Kremlin funded fascist but if Joe Rogan or Alex Jones or some other right wing moron wants to let us promote our relatively small group live on their show I will always take the opportunity.
No.26536
>>26532Look, I don't understand it either.
Where is the republicans?
[muffled Modern Talking playing in the distance]
https://youtu.be/Lp2qcCrdBLADid you know the child of Napoleon III was killed by the Zulu while fighting for the eternal anglo?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis-Napol%C3%A9on,_Prince_ImperialAin't that just quacking crazy, Jimbo?
The Napoleons are truly the most random family.
No.26595
Disco, do you believe
"where there is smoke there is fire"?
No.26599
Just again, to anyone who doesn't understand bad analogies
If you see a uniform, do what they tell you or make a run for it
I'm just kidding
No.26612
I am just here to say that as one of the mods, I am the one that taken the more hands off approach unless of course it is warranted for my presence to be known. Though I don't know if I am part of the problem, as I kinda voice my opinion moderate when the others need it. While sad we don't have Discomrade anymore (May he rest in pieces) we generally need to fix the problems we have now. What that maybe I am not sure but I do know this. You can always count on your United Nations representative for Human-Dolphin Relations and asking the real questions. Was U.N. Own her? Along with J. Posadas was right and we should create the Neo-Posadist manifesto to bring forth the Space Comrades and come to love Xenophilia. If elected as Presendent of the United States Leftypol I can assure you this, you can get all that alien bussy and pussy you ever want, FALGPC will become a reality. We will uplift the Dolphins and the Great Apes to prove that we are capable in doing so.
That ends my speech thank you for reading. Remember to love the bomb as the Atom creates us.
No.26617
Mods can't even deal with CP, sad
No.26618
>>26617this is one unfortuantly i do not envy the mods in terms of enforcement
No.26619
Goddamn you all for destroying this site. The bloody mods had a good thing going on and could have actually have led this site to new highs had they actually worked together under socialist principles of democratic centralism instead of working with the opinions of the dumb cryers in the crowd of unpolished users. You fools should have took further control of the site and influenced its politics in ways that appeal to all users and still stimulate debate, not engage in pissing matches and cave under pressure. Had the mod team listened to the Maoists with superior organization, especially the lambasted “Ron from Ohio” who was always right about where the site was headed and who should have been incorporated into its leadership along with NewsAnon and the based red flag poster and Leninhat, none of this would have happened. For crying out loud, anyone tolerating the objectively awful tripfags and attention seekers like King Lear, Pennyposter, and grifter CPUSAnon should have been purged from the mod team a long while ago instead of keeping it together for false unity. There should have been self criticism and party struggles to fix this course instead of letting reactionaries and dengist sex pests from ruining the culture.
Special condemnation goes to the tragic hero that is the coward Discomrade. Discomrade, you actually did the most to save this site in its heydays and keep it growing, but your bourgeoise idealism and weakness in asserting yourself at all among friends in favor of being popular and inoffensive doomed this site. It was you who kept most of the reactionaries at bay and made and promoted some ok memes out of the cringe, especially in terms of race and making this site stand out, but you still failed. What fight you had in keeping the furries down—which was excessive even with immense problems a minority of bad actors posted—and keeping several good generals alive with skilled networking does not make up for relying erroneously on the masses and being meek in the face of adversity, something you do irl. What may have doomed you is for people to finally have enough of your treading for reactionary Idpol as of late, especially the offensive racist minstrel show given by a self-hating homosexual, you should have fought harder in the past to recruit and persuade the mod team to change. You failed at keeping a tightly sealed ship and have posted tons of weak leaks endangering the stability and user enjoyment of the site instead of abiding by socialist principles, of which you abandoned for reactionary idealism and turning back on the job you should have saved.
It may be better just to end this site and end the misery of this given the threat of degeneration into reaction by fools and feds, something the entire mod team enabled, endorsed, and even ignored till it was too late. You fools know what you did, and if you are reading this I hope you seriously either get your shit together or stop engaging with the workers struggle entirely in order for it to get less wrecked
No.26620
>>26619holy roleplay batman
No.26621
>>26619I can't tell if this is a joke or sheer madness
>>26620Hey you aren't me
No.26627
Can someone explain how the fuck site administration actually works? If the sysadmin doesn't like two of the mods, can't he just…make them not mods anymore? What's the problem, exactly?
No.26628
>>26627>Can someone explain how the fuck site administration actually worksNo, that would ruin the joke
No.26629
>>26628But no really, please tell me there's an actual, technical reason that the guy can't just unmod the two guys he doesn't like and that it's not "Our democratic principles prohibit me from taking unsactioned actions."
Because if it's the latter this site is run by fucking retards
No.26630
>>26629My name is Franz Kafka
Welcome to Jackass
No.26631
>>26629Abiding by democratic rule is actually effective. Are you retarded or what?
No.26632
>>26627>>26629Disco was not the sysadmin.
No.26633
>>26632Who the hell is the sysadmin then? Honestly after lurking it out this whole thread, Pask needs to stop being a bitch and be more receptive to the wider team
No.26634
>>26631The only effective way to run a private website is a benevolent dictatorship. "Democratic" experiments have been tried many times and they always end in disaster because the infrastructure of a website requires one person have ultimate final say.
If we must have an element of democracy, major decisions could be left up to a user vote. But having some sort of consensus based vote among the mods is literally the stupidest way to moderate a website I can even fathom.
>>26632Ah, I'm not an IT guy, I thought sysop and sysadmin were synonyms. My b
No.26635
>>26634>The only effective way to run a private website is a benevolent dictatorship.as someone who helped with many online projects this has always been the case
No.26636
>>26634I declare myself the benevolent dictator of this site.
As my first motion, I will institute a democratic centralist committee of mods that will make decisions. Since I am benevolent, I will abide by their decisions unless they want to blow up the site.
Things are definitely not exactly how they were before I posted this. Let the reign of benevolence begin!
No.26637
>>26636No you're right, it's super efficient and smart to have two mods no users (or other mods) like on the team purely to adhere to a "democratic centralist" way of organizing that was never intended or designed for running an obscure imageboard. You are definitely very enlightened and not at all retarded.
No.26638
>>26636>>26637Ok I know I'm just revealing myself for someone who gets mad on the internet, but I genuinely can't understand why you think its necessary or even practical for a shitposting website to have democratic oversight. The only democracy you need is knowing that users can abandon ship if you make too many retarded decisions, which /leftypol/'s proud and noble history has shown its userbase is more than willing to do.
Having democratic decision making among the moderators is stupid, pointless, and poisonous to the site's usability. You should be ashamed of yourself for being so stupid.
No.26639
>>26638nah dude treating niche imageboards like countries is very smart
No.26640
>>26638Its a team effort. Bad decisions average out as well as good decisions. History has shown that when leftypol is run by one person, things go downhill very very fast.
Also, certain mods have more knowledge about specific domains. It makes no sense to presume to know more for no benefit. Basically, if people act like normal functioning adults, things usually work out fine.
No.26641
>>26636Democratic centralism is when pask is still posting in meta lmao
No.26642
>>26640>Basically, if people act like normal functioning adults, things usually work out fine.That’s a very big fucking if, especially considering the current mod team
(habitual serial spammer) No.26643
>>26642>serial spammerBro I posted that shit on my phone with the wifi turned off. So, I have no clue what IP you saw but it wasn't my normal one lmao
(Keep going) No.26645
>>26641Are you a little baby or something? Genuine question.
People slander the mod team (there are some that did that every day for hours) for years but when I decided to push back just a little it's suddenly a huge deal. Get some perspective.
No.26646
Do notice how the complaining shifted from "we need more democracy" to "we need a strongman".
This feels to me like just another bit. Try as I might I can't take it seriously. Maybe you are making a joke about liberals. Or you are liberals but don't know it. Many such cases.
Who do you think is going to be the strongman in a "law of the jungle" situation? Is it going to be the nice man going "Yes, Miss Karen, of course, the customer is king"
or is it going to be the 800-pound gorilla?
This is why we say reactionaries are paper tigers and they undermine themselves.
No.26649
>>26642>>26643Take your meds m00dy.
No.26651
>>26650you're not m00dy, he would've just deleted the post.
No.26652
>>26651Yes, they are merciful
No.26655
So does anyone here actually like pask, and is it not awkward during the meetings if you're constantly shit talking eachother?
No.26656
>>26655I don't even go to meetings
No.26657
>>26656Understandable tbh
No.26658
>>26646No you idiot, my point was it’s less of a risk to trust ONE mod to act normal and rational than to trust 10 to.
Look what happens in a “Democratic” (btw its not democratic if the mods are completely unaccountable to the actual user base of the site) mod team when just two sperglords wiggle their into authority positions. The site turns to shit because you’re a self-important dumbass who wants to LARP like you’re Lenin when in actuality you are the moderator of a tiny imageboard with less than 100 regulars.
No.26659
>>26645You are literally here right now in this post breaking your “democratic centralist” orders.
The extent to which you are simply a complete loon lacking any self awareness at all is such that I feel bad almost saying things to you because I am sure you must be disabled in some way
No.26660
>>26658>important Believe me when I wanna feel important I can go do other things.
It's all been there, done that for me.
No.26661
>>26660Whatever you need to tell yourself, but no one takes their job as an online mod this personally unless they’re craving some sense of power they’re not getting in their personal life.
No.26662
>>26661Mirror, mirror on the wall
No.26663
>>26662I’m not a mod of this site, but I used to do it on other sites, so yes, I’m speaking from personal experience. People who feel like failures IRL often try to get their self esteem met online, and I’m not too proud to admit that used to be me.
No.26664
>>26663Wow I really don't care about your personal life
but epic
No.26665
>>26664I’m praying for you to see the light. May the Prophet (PBUH) help you through this
No.26667
Pasquale is definitely an incel.
No.26669
>>26668absolute joke of a man.
No.26670
There is absolutely zero chance that Pasquale has a happy home life. It just is simply not possible
No.26672
every response pask posts in this mod sanctioned pask free zone, is another deeper indictment of this shithole board and it’s retard moderators
No.26673
>>26672Now don't get distracted, you want to attack me, not other mods
Getting distracted is a sign of weakness
No.26674
>>26673You are all delusional
No.26676
Are you both mods?
No.26677
>>26676Everyone that ever posted on this board is a mod or a wannabe mod
fact
No.26678
This whole thread is proof that we need a purge
No.26679
>>26678We are always already purging and so on
schniff
No.26680
Urgh.
No.26682
>>26678A purge of the mods. Based.
A purge of the posters? Cringe.
No.26683
>>26682Also, just to reiterate, moderating leftypol should not be even remotely difficult. You just need to ban 3 things:
>Illegal content>Actual spam>Obvious /pol/ invasionsEverything else can be left alone and, if it lowers board quality, have some bare minimum faith in the users that they can deal with it themselves.
No.26696
>>26694I've moderated large communities before, including a subreddit of 50,000+ subscribers. It's time-consuming, but not difficult, no.
>>26695You're mentally ill and you belong in an asylum.
No.26697
>>26696you will never be a doctor
No.26698
>>26696m8 obviously I'd just break out
No.26699
>>26698No obviously not
This is my mental institution. You're locked in here with me, I'm not locked in here with you.
No.26749
So does that mean you were being serious or not?
No.26848
I have decided that you were being for real and it just makes it so much more funny,
No.26866
Bitch
>>26087>say they will support a policy just to hear people complainI'm curious about this one. I've always been honest, maybe held back a little too much.
Also would you say you slipped into a cultish devotion to incorrectness rejecting correctness? Just the vibes I am getting from these first three posts. Just asking questions here.
>openly hostile to feedbackI maintain this is me holding back. I can either take you seriously or not. But being dishonest is just not me.
>>26088>If that time had been spent making leftychan a site with better content and better community, it could have been thriving by nowOr if there wasn't all these ridiculous issues (mentally and structurally) it would be good.
Do you believe in non-determinism?
I don't know if I need to explain it in detail. You start with pretty much correctly laying out the make-up of the site (which continues after but in the middle there is this weird statement). So in what world could it ever have had a good community?
>leftypol.org's shadowIn the psychoanalytic sense?
>>26117This post, I suppose, makes sense if you are paranoid but in the wrong direction.
>someone[s?] apparently told pasquale to stop constantly being an outright troll on /meta/Sorry, that didn't work out.
>>26180>The fact that both you and woobly say you didnt know disco had any gripes is exactly the problem.I've made the comment that I think disco is a woman to several people at this point. Make of that what you will (unlike me, most people are also not that great at the whole Mentalist [remember that show] act)
I could go on but I'm bored now and it would just be rude and impolite.
No.26881
So what I am getting from this is 'stop holding back'
Aight then
No.27018
bump
No.27022
Q: Why are my questions not being addressed?
A: Everyone's a critic.
No.27024
>>26670If you think he is pathetic then how come you have to spend hours every single day stating such?
No.27045
>>27022Let me ask in seriousness why you have no answers OP. I have answers to everything, you might not like them but I have them. So where's the problem? Standing by something isn't a problem. At a certain point you will get into a situation where you think "might as well". Or maybe not, maybe it never happens for some people.
No.27171
of course the mods would sooner die than give an inch
No.27175
>>27171I really don't see how there is anything but nonsense contained here. In the best case it's a confused outcry of "things could be better"
Gee whiz
but hey as long as it makes sense to you
>Where there is smoke there is fire No.27285
Why is this thread so stylish?
No.27289
>>27285idk
thread looks way better with gurochan theme though
No.27410
>>27289Yeah, obviously too late for me to change it now. I also didn't realize this theme has black spoilers on black bg… vichan is just a poorly-designed mess all the way down.
>>27175There's nothing confused about it.
Clear, concrete, substantiated problems have been repeatedly listed and noticed by a variety of users and even demonstrated ITT.
Likely causes have been diagnosed.
Solutions have been put forward.
Nothing has changed.
Even extremely basic communication problems with easy and safe solutions, like avoiding bad ban reasons, are lost on half the staff. The bottom line is, it is now crystal clear that the core staff just don't give a fuck.
No.27411
>>27410I think pask has largely fucked off from moderating so it's not all bad news.
No.27414
>>27410Disco, take a lesson from history and get that you are lunacharsky encarnate, a person who made this place special but was too afraid to speak out when it mattered. It isn’t all your fault, but some of the blame is in your hands. This is why differences of opinion need to be expressed but collective action should be taken in regards to running this website, it would have streamlined a lot of moderation decisions and would have made drama less common. It would have led to the
Leftypol of 2020 to be back. Oh well, your sexy ass tried and did a good job for years.
No.27421
>>27414/leftypol/ sucked in 2020, what?
Fuck, /leftypol/ hasn't been good since 2017, let alone actually worth browsing.
No.27494
>>26492Strongest snivelling ultra
No.27548
>>26492Oh man if this is rough on you I hope we never have the Uganda scenario where Uganda becomes the center of world geopolitics for some unfathomable reason and Ugandans start posting en masse
No.27602
>>27548>>27512Thread developed into full schizo posting
No.27611
>>27548*facepalm*
How on earth is ribbing someone with a hypothetical nightmare scenario for them schizo posting son?
No.27721
>>26646Never forget they started crying for a strongman
That's all it takes, just a little push
No.28039
>>26087After some violent thoughts about this guy its safe to say /leftypol/ will be much better without you.
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