No.1843394
>>1843389>You are not converting right wingers.Never thought otherwise. Fuck 'em
>Your attempt to try to differentiate yourself from mainstream left wingers to appeal to /pol/acks by saying uyghurTake it up with the dumbass edgelords in /ISG/
>Grow up and develop a realistic grasp of who your actual allies are.Liberals openly say out loud that they look forward to the thought of Trump exterminating us for potentially not voting Biden.
No.1843395
>>1843389>Just wanted to drop in to tell you that your negative attitude towards liberal progressives but your welcoming attitude towards right wing extremists with the rationale that the latter has more potential to be converted „because they also despise capitalism“ is both dumb and proven to be false.Yes I agree.
No.1843396
I agree with you, with some serious reservations and qualifications, but on the whole I agree with you.
No.1843407
>>1843394>Liberals openly say out loud that they look forward to the thought of Trump exterminating us for potentially not voting Biden.When talking about liberals or "the right" it is very important to differentiate between internet poisoned retards that say that kind of thing, and people with a set of political values who mostly just go about their life. There are plenty of small c conservatives who are absolutely worth talking to, but on the whole the people most worth engaging with are nominally apolitical people who are highly disillusioned with "liberal values" (freedom, equality, etc) not because theyre against those things, but because they care earnestly about them and are discouraged by seeing them go unfulfilled. After that, its earnest liberals who arent ideologically or personally invested in established political institutions, and then disillusioned moderate conservatives.
Reactionaries and the kind of bloodthirsty liberal defenders of the status quo arent worth are time.
No.1843422
>>1843389>You are not converting right wingersGood.
Go away.
No.1843427
>>1843389Even if we could convert some reactionaries I don't think I'd ever forgive them
No.1843435
Here is roughly what Mao says: link up with the socialists, convince the progressives, uplift the undecided, win over the conservatives and liquidate the reactionaries.
No.1843458
I don't even think most of the condemnations towards "liberal progressives" is a matter of trying to "convert" right wingers (unless you're a retard like Haz and the MAGA Coms) but frustration with an arrogant and annoying sect of ideologues. Only so many times you can point out that NATO expansion isn't a good thing and hear "HOW MUCH IS PUTIN PAYING YOU?!" before you learn to hate them. The snake-like nature of libs is genuinely, I mean this, genuinely infuriating to a lot of people.
They'll pretend to be on your side then tut-tutt about norms and procedures when you're protesting a genocide.
No.1843463
>>1843389I am actually going to say that we could actually do so, but only like a marginal amount of them, ones who are rather weakly ingrained in right-wing adjacent culture but are not actually all that involved in it.
I don't think we'll be able to convince some Hispanic trans obsessive pol/vtard to join up with communism, it requires a sense of humility that 2nd generation immigrants just don't seem to have for some reason but outside of that idk what the problem is with chatting up with poor hicks on the issue. I would not really acquiesce to their culture war bullshit though.
No.1843465
>>1843389you should try to convert everyone. we say uygha cause we like it not to try larp as right wing.
No.1843491
>>1843485
You can gas yourself since hitler considered you a brown halfJew
No.1843497
>>1843465>you should try to convert everyone.A waste of time and energy. We should spend our resources on converting those who are likely to be converted and have political use. Right wing extremists are a small minority of the population and hardly convertible. Converting them is not necessary at all for us to succeed.
No.1843502
>>1843497if right wingers come here and are willing to talk why not talk to them. if progressives do then same
No.1843506
>>1843389100% agree. But this is where I come to be edgy and unserious and I still like this place
No.1843512
>>1843502They either troll or start fruitless debates. If they are willing to be converted then engage, otherwise left wingers should not spend an ounce of energy to pro-actively appeal to or convert right wing extremists.
No.1843536
>>1843535
>muh vibes
No.1843538
>>1843427>Even if we could convert some reactionaries I don't think I'd ever forgive themYep the only real camp is that they cannot be trusted.
People who go far-right can never be trusted at the least.
>>1843497>>1843465>>you should try to convert everyone.>A waste of time and energy. We should spend our resources on converting those who are likely to be converted and have political use. You shouldn't being trying to convert anyone per-se. You should be agitating and materially aiding the revolutionary class and we should then come to you, no?
No.1843539
>>1843485
But, I have been dreaming to use your toothbrush from the start, are you willing to share it with everyone?.. also, how am I supposed to solve jewish problem, what's the jewish problem? I am so helpless!
No.1843542
>>1843485
>please take my vibes-based politics seriously
no
No.1843547
>>1843535
clearly not enough heirachy was not established during your childhood, since you demand that society follows your imaginary caste system
No.1843569
>>1843564
What makes you think I give a fuck about converting you?
You're not converting anyone who says shit like "my beliefs are natural because they just are." When you get to that point, you're talking to someone whose beliefs are purely a means of satisfying some deep-seated emotional need. Emotions will always be a part of a person's beliefs, but once you cross that threshold, there's no reasoning with them, and trying to is a waste of time.
No.1843589
>>1843564
With logic such as white supremacy while pushing white genocide and oppression. It's no wonder why you're becoming extinct.
No.1843595
>>1843594
I accept your concession and lack of arguement
No.1843602
>>1843594
>I'm not trying to convert you
<heh…. well then tell me this…. why aren't you converting me
No.1843611
>>1843604
>oppression is natural hahahah seethe
<nooooo why do my enemies want to kill me
No.1843612
>>1843604
We aren't killing western civilization, it does it by itself. All we do is offer an alternative
No.1843616
>>1843614
Houthis
No.1843617
>>1843614
Don't give a fuck because I reject the implied axiom that might makes right because it assumes that you can run a society in perpetuity by trying to control causality with blunt force ad infinitum (it always has the last laugh and it will always kill you if it feels like it)
No.1843642
Sorry I went down the Maoist-Islamist pipeline almost a decade ago.
No.1843644
>>1843630
Both you classical liberals and neoliberals are literally the most guilty party of moral postering and hypocracy of them all. You believe imperialism is good because it spreads superior western morality. You believe in the free market until the government has to bail out the economy again.
No.1843647
>>1843635 (me)
also your argument sucks because it assumes an unconditional necessary connection between the thought-content of a particular ethical stance and one particular set of actions, which you can't demonstrate isn't historically contingent, and I reject your starting axioms that "nature is always unequal" anyway, because the insane variety of behavior among different social species blows a hole in your starting position off the bat No.1843650
>>1843642 many Palestinian maoists also became islamists
No.1843656
>>1843654
>darwinism
lmao darwin literally wrote that social species that compete with each other instead of cooperating are more likely to go extinct
>the behavior of communists throughout history is pretty fucking consistent.
dodging the issue friendo
No.1843660
>>1843658
>social species whose individual members are in constant competition are at a higher risk of driving themselves extinct
<but what about groups
dodging the issue yet again
No.1843664
>>1843614
>i say guns are a better weapon.
But anon, guns aren't natural, shouldn't you be fighting with sticks?
No.1843665
>>1843658
That's why the USSR defeated the Nazis and why China is outcompeting the Americans. They are more organized societies than their competition.
No.1843676
>>1843650I'm not surprised. First your a Marxist but the mainstream left is unsatisfying, then you become and Islamic Marxist and they just get hostile, so finally you drop the Marxist part and just keep on going. The left is really its own worst enemy. Leftists do their best to alienate and annoy as many people as possible instead of winning them over and good people get pushed away.
No.1843688
>>1843678
TIL being dunken on is being taken seriously.
No.1843691
>>1843389Nazis be like:
>You hate capitalism because it's oppressive>I hate capitalism because it doesn't allow me to be oppressive>We are not the same
>>1843485The Jewish problem is that you are a transjew. You should just circumsize yourself, embrace your goddamn talmud and convert to rabbinical judaism. Only then will you satisfy your Jewish Dysphoria.
>>1843535So will you finally embrace retvrn to monke?
>>18436762nd law of thermodynamics i guess. Much easier to become a nazi than to think and become a communist.
No.1843696
>>1843485
Also, I dont want your toothbrush
After jackson hinkle talked about giving his girlfriends used toothbrushes (while saying they are new), I stopped trusting toothbrushes.
>Mouth bidet all the way
No.1843697
>>1843696>mouth bidetWhere can I find this magical item? I crave
freshness No.1843698
>>1843692
>Im not going to kill you but if you start sabotaging my plans, I will kill you.
Is that hard to understand chinlet?
No.1843704
>>1843700
>being annoying on the internet makes me important enough that other people would actually want to make the effort of killing me
No.1843705
>Communism is when murder is wrong
No.1843706
>>1843703Why wouldn't you just use the sink
No.1843708
>>1843706man, haven't you seen
Manhunter? That's freak shit
No.1843711
>>1843691>Much easier to become a nazi than to think and become a communist.I'm not a Nazi. But this illustrates another problem with leftists: their extreme arrogance. In many ways, the average leftypol user isn't far removed from a /pol/chinlet. They just believe different things with one being more delusional than the other, but in both cases leftists and chinlets are horrible to be around. You can't hang out with them because they insist on being arrogant assholes 90% of the time. The majority of the content on this forum is now basically shitposts where the aim is to annoy the libs as much as possible. Its a circlejerk and you see the same brainrot observable on other net echo chambers.
No.1843714
>>1843711Honestly you're not wrong. But I honestly think this is at this point kind of an online (esp. western) thing specifically. When I organized IRL comrades always went out of their way to be as approachable and friendly as possible.
I think what this is, is that after the 1980s and the left got marginalized for a while in the imperial core, anti-capitalism became an exclusive subculture - think of the overlap between punk and anarchist scenes and hostility towards "sellouts"
No.1843716
>>1843712just position your mouth to capture the water flowing downward from the side.
No.1843727
>>1843711>>1843713>>1843714You retards just don't want to admit the driving force of nazism is animal instincts.
>Nazis hate commies more than jews. >Nazis love the pyramid. >They dream to be on top of the pyramid. >They think the jew is on top of the pyramid. >But the commie hates the pyramid and wants to destroy it. <Therefore the commie is worse than the jew because he destroys the nazi worldview.Capitalism created this. The endless worship of the pyramid. As a russian oligarch (vexelberg kek) said after getting sanctioned
>It's not about the money. I lost my meaning in life.If you live in a slave society, the slaves only know the slaveowner, they dream of being the slaveowner, they cannot conceptualize a world without slaves.
No.1843730
>>1843710
Anon makes bait, bait does not make Anon. Bait is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of Anon who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But Anon is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Anon is the world of Anon – Imageboard, Shitposting. This imageboard and this shitposting produce bait, which is an inverted consciousness of the worldt, because they are an inverted world. Bait is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the shitposter essence since the shitposter essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against bait is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that Internet whose spiritual aroma is bait.
Bait posting is, at one and the same time, the expression of real posting and a protest against real posting. Bait is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of Anon.
The abolition of bait as the illusory happiness of the posters is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of bait is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which bait is the halo.
Criticism has plucked the imaginary flowers on the chain not in order that Anon shall continue to bear that chain without fantasy or consolation, but so that he shall throw off the chain and pluck the living flower. The criticism of bait disillusions Anon, so that he will think, act, and fashion his reality like an Anon who has discarded his illusions and regained his senses, so that he will move around himself as his own true Sun. Bait is only the illusory Sun which revolves around Anon as long as he does not revolve around himself.
No.1843732
>>1843727Man I'm talking about a completely different aspect of what that guy said.
> the driving force of nazism is animal instincts. No disagreement here
No.1843739
>>1843714Many of the misgivings Adorno and Horkheimer had about the 60s student movement turned out to be true. Marcuse's idea that street people, gays, students etc. would replace the proletariat as the revolutionary class have really poisoned the Western left. I don't blame him, he was a great man but now we have a left that hates poor people. We had a whole strand of liberals who appropriated some of the cultural causes of the 60s without the socialism part and they go around calling themselves left and they are everywhere. And what do they do? They frame everything as a struggle against hold overs from the past, especially religion, tradition, and conservatism. The result is that people for whom, say, Christianity or traditional family life are a meaningful and important part of their lives were suddenly made into political enemies. Even radical leftists here adopt these stances e.g. look at the anti-Abrahamism thread.
Marxists really believe their ideology is a science and therefore objectively true. That's what makes them so damn arrogant. Other opinions simply cannot be allowed to exist and if you don't believe what we believe that means your stupid, irrational, unscientific, obviously wrong etc. Nazis likewise believe their retarded racial ideology is a science and act accordingly. Talking to a dogmatic Marx thumper is really no different to having a conversation about race with a poltard. They'll just mock you for being obviously wrong. They never engage in arguments at all. Its why leftists and chinlets will forever occupy fringe corners of the internet. But chinlets, because they are less interested in self-isolation, will do their best to leverage and influence the broader public. Have you been on /tttt/ these past few months? Every now and then a polchinlet will turn up and make posts about how anti-trans Muslims, Palestinians, and immigrants are, and that's usually coming from someone who's a transphobe. But they put that aside for a minute to exploit divisions and push their narratives about race, Muslims, immigrants, Jews etc.
The left decided a long time ago to commit collective suicide.
No.1843742
>>1843737Come on, don't think we're screwed just because of a few Nazis on some shit site owned by Nazis, normal people don't use shitter.
No.1843745
>>1843742>Retard doesnt understand manufacturing support for war with russia and china from MIC through elonWhy do you think the twitter switcheroo happened? We should be worried retard.
No.1843746
>>1843745I thought Elon was pro-China?
No.1843747
>>1843746MIC bro. Who cares about elon, hees just a tool
No.1843749
>>1843741Idk what this exactly supposed to convey but for mouth freshness you're better off using a toungue scraper and instead of a spray.
No.1843753
>>1843749Alright Ill spell it out for you.
*I WAS TROLLING*
I use a toothbrush with mouth wash and salt
No.1843756
>>1843389>You are not converting right wingers.Wrong logic. A good portion of this board
is made up of right wingers/reactionaries who fooled themselves into thinking they are left. They are deeply confused liberals.
No.1843776
>>1843753mouthwash is a terrible idea. That's like using antibiotics daily. If you don't use toothpastd at least switch to sodium bicarbonate
No.1843858
>Grow up and develop a realistic grasp of who your actual allies are.
>actually implying that liberals are our allies
AAAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHA
No.1843899
>>1843898What the fuck happened to Ishida's brain
No.1843934
>>1843756this
hilarious how most new "lefty" /pol/ers are seemingly unaware of how reactionary this shithole truly is
No.1843941
>>1843899Never go full radfem
No.1843951
>Just wanted to drop in to tell you that your negative attitude towards liberal progressives but your welcoming attitude towards right wing extremists
I shit on both. This is an imageboard, not a proletarian party, and I have no idea of knowing whether the asshole on the other screen is a middle-class idiot or a proletarian.
No.1844079
>>1843389> liberal progressives for the simple reason that they have a shared sentiment in opposing oppressionSure, like every other fascist does not rally behind liberal notions of "freedom" and "against oppression" that re the same as the progressives. They are about the same except for culture war and wedge issues. The "Overton Window" or whatever moves seamlessly from well meaning socdem to genocidal fascist back and forth and the liberals within, barely notice. Today progressive libs cry for Palestinians, yesterday they wanted to
Totalen Krieg Russia and have conceded a second round of "Reaganomics" in the name of idpol and culture war.
Do you want
Dubya' or do you want
Obama to sell you the next imperialist intervention and class collaboration?
No.1844080
>>1843934its arguably less reactionary now than years ago
No.1844084
>>1843389>liberal progressive idpol still seeks to overcome oppression and bring people together this way>The people with the greatest potential to be converted remain liberal progressives for the simple reason that they have a shared sentiment in opposing oppression and establishing an egalitarian society.lol
lmao
You are more than two years too late to post this idiotic drivel, you stupid maggot.
Not even the most naïve and self-deluded posters around here could pretend any of this shit is true by the Western response to the Russians intervening to prevent a genocide.
No.1844094
>>1844080/leftypol/ started as a sort of bizarro-/pol/ back in the ancient days of hotwheel's 8gag rather than anything resembling any form of leftism whatsoever
It's hard to imagine /leftypol/ never growing the beard away from that ethos
even if it's still a highly reactionary shithole nevertheless No.1844096
>>1843389>your negative attitude towards liberal progressives but your welcoming attitude towards right wing extremists Get the fuck outta here with this jank-ass strawman.
>Rarely do we have successful converts How the fuck do you know this dog? Do you know the IPs and identities of posters?
>they still can‘t let go of right wing brainrot, i.e. chauvinistic idpol. The same can be said for liberals, we agree then, let them all face the wall. Next.
>The people with the greatest potential to be converted remain liberal progressives No they don't, you got your figurative ass beat on this when you attempted to claim this before. Liberals are nothing more than the fifth column that destroys leftist movements from the inside out like a cancer. Never trust a liberal, because a scratched liberal is a bleeding fascist. The nazi fags posting here are open about it and opposed and confronted on their bullshit because they're not pretending to be one of us. Liberals are backstabbing liars; useful idiots for glowies AT BEST.
>it was right wing extremists who killed communists Funny, considering that liberals on reddit were the first to start calling for nuclear war regarding Russia and Ukraine, and it was liberals promoting seething dehumanization of Chinese and Russian peoples as subhuman orcs with an inherent culture of destruction. It's liberal movements that have been used by the CIA to create coups of governments that aren't cowtowing to the USA and NATO and these same liberals swiftly became open fascists the moment they got power, it happened in Ukraine, it nearly happened in Georgia, etc.
>Your attempt to try to differentiate yourself from mainstream left wingers to appeal to /pol/acks by saying uyghur is pathetic and very telling. Your blatant wordfiltering makes it obvious that you're copy-pasting this shit without knowing anything about this site.
>develop a realistic grasp of who your actual allies are Not fucking liberals. Nobody here says /pol/ or Nazis are our ally, the ONLY time this is ever used is as a joking meme "Fuck it, One Struggle".
Fuck liberals, fuck nazis, you two losers deserve one another.
No.1844147
>>1843739> Marxists really believe their ideology is […] objectively true. That's what makes them so damn arrogant.You just described every ideology ever lol. What you describe is equally true of christians, muslims, nazis, libertarians, etc
No.1844163
>>1843389Most people on this website don't seriously think right-wingers are easier to deal with, people only ever laugh at Hinkle and other based magacommunist retards.
>Grow up and develop a realistic grasp of who your actual allies are.Not most liberals, that's for sure. Right now we're seeing this bisection of "the western left" between people who decided to stay on the side of American imperialism and the few who decided to at least protest a fucking genocide. The ones who are are still liberal idealists mostly, it's just that they stand by bourgeois morality.
No.1844178
I agree with this.
We need to drop the IdPol clause, it is and always has been 'culture war' bullshit, an artefact of the last decade, an artefact of the right wing media.
We are more likely easily to 'persuade' or 'convince' liberal progressives, although I don't really think those are communist tactics, but you are right in principle.
No.1844179
>>1844178Drop the anti sentiment towards it, pro is understandable, but plenty of critiques to be made or to even dismiss it entirely, and look at specific charachteristics like race, under a marxist lens which has already been done, with widely available literature, a materialist conception.
No.1844202
>>1843739>Other opinions simply cannot be allowed to exist and if you don't believe what we believe that means your stupid, irrational, unscientific, obviously wrong etc.Yes. Problem?
No.1844203
ITT: Hey what if we removed all the remaining parts of /leftypol/ from leftypol.org? That will fix the place, right?
No.1844209
>>1843389>your negative attitude towards liberal progressives but your welcoming attitude towards right wing extremists Who is welcoming right wing extremists? These people are beyond fixing. Their brain has turned to mush. They are anti-social to the core of their bones, they are sociopathic, schizophrenic, and beyond repair.
I have a number of reactionaries close to my life. Only dedicated psychological help can rehabilitate these people but it is my opinion that many of these people have serious mental conditions.
No.1844215
>but your welcoming attitude towards right wing extremists with the rationale that the latter has more potential to be converted „because they also despise capitalism“ is both dumb and proven to be false.
These are /pol/ shills not communists.
No.1844288
>>1844094what the fuck lol i was there, it started with exactly the premise it has now, a nonsectarian radical leftist imageboard where youre allowed to say fag and retard. you are just making shit up
No.1844328
>>1844213what if we kissed in the cuck pit 👉👈
No.1844348
>>1843389What we think matters little. It's the retarded mods that set the agenda.
By the way, nobody in their right mind believes any of this. It's solely the domain of the deranged and terminally online.
No.1844369
End of the day, the deal is that we're stuck engaging with right-wingers from /pol/ way more often than we'd like, and even if the probability of success is low, the frequency of engagement is too high and we're definitely going to get a lot of ex-fascists coming onboard.
Which isn't necessarily that bad a thing; they're fundamentally pragmatic, but we have to take especial care in deprogramming them and preventing their rightoid memes from contaminating us.
No.1844412
>>1844147>>1844202Christians and Muslims ground their truths in revelation not individual reason or science. A Muslim doesn't expect a martian to come to the same theological or religious conclusions as himself nor does he fault him. Its why Christians have a vested interest in spreading their message, hence the 'good news' of Christ. Modern ideologies believe they are grounded in reason and science, consequentially anyone who does not believe in them must be irrational, ignorant, or plain backward for not having evolved these ideas.
Leftists make more demands of people than liberals. Its not enough to just oppose capitalism, you have to endorse trans rights, gay rights, a specific vision of women's rights, you have to be an atheist or at least secular. Liberalism is much more flexible. You can be a liberal that supports welfare and opposes it, you can be secular or religious, you can be a pro-trans liberal or a transphobic one. This adaptability is why liberalism and neoliberalism keep winning out over the left, and every few years leftists add another dogma to the dog pile making their ideology even more restrictive and ethnocentric. We've got the point where we have gay bisexual rightoids who are perfectly at home on the far right, but if you disagree with the left on one tiny issue you immediately get kicked out. As leftism devolves into an exclusive elite subculture this problem only gets worse.
Yes, liberalism is bad but the whole "fuck the libs" attitude is bullshit because the average person influenced by liberalism is easier to reach than a fucking polchinlet. Note: NYT reading shitlibs are about as reasonable as Nazis and there's no point reaching out to them either.
No.1844437
>>1844412That was complete drivel. Leave our leftist group I‘m kicking you out.
<Proceeds to walk Glownonymous to the exit No.1844440
facts, right wingers don't like capitalism cuz its doesn't fulfill there childish ass conan the barbarian ass fantasies of being le epic individual and not for any substantive reason and we should stop simping for them
No.1844466
>>1843389I've been trying to tell this to leftypol for some six years (mods, I'm an oldhead not a /pol/tard btw)
No.1844517
>>1844412>ts not enough to just oppose capitalism, you have to endorse trans rights, gay rights, a specific vision of women's rights, you have to be an atheist or at least secular.I'm not sure what your point is? Do we need more anti-capitalist transphobes? We've already got plenty of those with the Pat"Socs".
No.1844523
retarded post. sic the cheka on this retard
socialism is not a cult or a church. we dont want to "convince" or "convert" anyone. we want the unity of the working class
measurement of ideological thought is useless. "oh this guy supports x party so hes likely to become a leftist but this guy supports y party so hes likely to become a reactionary". i cant believe i need to say this but the interests of bourgeois parties dont reflect the interests of the proletariat
every member of every social strata has the chance to be or become either reactionary, reformist or revolutionary
No.1844591
>>1843394> Liberals openly say out loud that they look forward to the thought of Trump exterminating us for potentially not voting Biden.Liberals aren’t a monolith, ideologue Blue MAGA freaks say that shit…but also most of the protestors are themselves progressive liberals; and the greatest opponent of social liberals in American political history has just been conservative liberals.
No.1844607
>>1844517His point is that Marxists need to drop their culture of bullying normies if they have literally any intention of growing beyond a fringe online subculture, which is correct
No.1844759
>>1844578converting them into corpses 😎
No.1844826
The only right wingers that can be converted are hard conservatives (e.g. followers of Leo Strauss) and certain types of Islamists who are already anti-capitalist and anti-state and reject bourgeois ideology. The run of the mill right winger, polchinlet, Nazi etc. is never going to be converted. They just hate people and want to annoy shitlibs. There's no real politics there.
>>1844517>I'm not sure what your point is? Do we need more anti-capitalist transphobes?No, transphobia a serious fucking problem. Leftists need to stop forcing their preferred solutions on people in ways that alienate them. e.g. solution to oppression of LGBT people is to combat religion or Catholics have to accept gay marriage, or Evangelicals need to accept abortion. Let the Evangelicals sort their theological problems out between themselves and erecting more and more retarded barriers to entry that push people away. Just because someone has apprehensions about trans people doesn't mean they should get the boot.
Leftists don't know what they want. Do they want to be a fringe online subculture like /pol/ or do they want to be popular among a broad demographic? You can't have both of these things.
No.1845701
>>1844163>Casually admits it was a nazi coupI wish Ukraine had balls to clean up the maidan like Luka did.
No.1845713
>>1844607most normies are bullied because they won't pretend to read rather than because of their social views though. oppose capitalism, endorse trans rights, gay rights, women's rights, be athiest, but oppose capitalism in a different way to me and the attack you will get 99.9% of the time is
liberal or
socdem.
No.1845714
>>1843389You seem to be confusing us with someone else. Go back to reddit
No.1845821
>>1843463uh buddy, do you mind? could you like uhhhh, not post anime girl feet pics? that one looks like a loli too
No.1845943
>>1843389A few years ago, I was making my way through the online libertarian-to-nazi pipeline before a "post-leftist" was willing to strike up a conversation with me. Now I don't really identify as anything specific, expect being anti-neoliberal.
If you don't want to deal with it, I don't blame you. It's almost impossible to get it through their heads that the main reason why they hate minorities is because white liberals are insufferable over idpol
No.1846297
My brother in christ this site isn't converting anyone anymore.
No.1846922
>>1843389>You are not converting right wingers.If Lenin could do it …
No.1846923
>>1844826>No, transphobia a serious fucking problemHow sheltered are you, retard. You know first world problems? That is like the -1000th world problem
No.1846928
>>1845943The main reason they hate non-whites is because culture encourages them to view us through a dehumanizing, inferior lens, while promoting the notion that even if the individual in question is not superior, their ancestors were.
You don’t start hating someone over their skin color because someone else was “too obsessed” with them
White leftists (not you) seriously need to stop coddling racist pigskins, I don’t sympathize with their inability to choose between their white supremacist peers and black proles
No.1846942
>>1846940>78903jesus, even more dead than this place. I don't get it. every time I encounter a fascist on 4chan on youtube they say they are being censored and that jannies keep banning them, but when they have a working, clean alternative they just refuse to go to it. leftists too.
No.1847105
>>1844412>separating liberals who are fine with gays (as long as they aren't poor) and homophobic liberalswhy?
No.1847110
the idea of "converting" people to communism is pretty stupid, especially when online and dealing with middle-class reactionaries. you arent supposed to cater to the whims of the petit-bourgeois, work together with the proletariat first
No.1847167
>>1843427Disagree, but only because I know how easy the far-right argument is to make when you're already invested in socdemism. If I had found Michael Lind before Michael Parenti I would have went down the same path.
No.1847322
>>1847236Ecen far righters are not retarded enough to shill for Romanovs. Hitler hated monarchy
No.1847354
>>1847327This but unironically.
No.1847663
>>1846923Problems are relative moron. You don't operate at the global level. You respond to the needs and issues in your community. Is transphobia a problem in the West Bank of Palestine? No, its low down on the list and a non-issue. If your in America then its absolutely a major problem you have to deal with.
No.1847703
pointless
No.1847706
There is no point in converting schizos. If anything, it's better to cart them off to mental institutions
No.1847718
>Just wanted to drop in to tell you that your negative attitude towards liberal progressives but your welcoming attitude towards right wing extremists with the rationale that the latter has more potential to be converted „because they also despise capitalism“ is both dumb and proven to be false.
I don't think nazis can be converted because they can't read. I only figured they were kept around as pets because they're little cuckboys that have learned to follow the rules and get clowned on over and over.
No.1847720
>>1847322Hitler was vegetarian (actually no, he just wanted Germans to eat less bercause Nazis failed agrarian policies hard
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/one-pot-meals-nazi-germany-eintopf and so had to set an example) and you don't see rightoids abandoning meats.
No.1847759
>>1847718End of the day, IRL, we might be considering violent action. But this is an internet board, filled with glowies (and probably glow-moderated), and the only way we can react to reactionary elements is by trying to turn them.
No.1847766
>>1843389>We‘ve had a fair share of right wing extremists here>Just wanted to drop inWho told you that your bourgeois middle-class bullshit was welcome at all?
>conversionIf you're going to talk like a Christian, start a church. If you're going to talk like a useless PMC salesbot, go back to reddit.
>alliesWe're here to destroy your little contest system, cunt, not play in it.
No.1847768
>>1843538>You shouldn't being trying to convert anyone per-se. You should be agitating and materially aiding the revolutionary class and we should then come to you, no?The strange prevalence of Christian "laws of motion" in Marxist spaces really needs investigation. Did Krautsky do this?
No.1847769
>>1844369>Which isn't necessarily that bad a thingIt is when we have no theory other than ancestor worship and a warning that sects have instead chosen to read as an instruction manual.
No.1847772
>>1844523>socialism is not a cult or a churchBASED
>proceeds to a one-dimensional moral essentialismOh no, it's retarded
No.1847774
>>1844607>growing beyond a fringe online subcultureReligions spread by the same lines as "culture".
>Let the Evangelicals sort their theological problems out between themselvesThat they do not do this, and that they instead do
>forcing their preferred solutions on people in ways that alienate themis exactly the problem that needs to be corrected.
>do they want to be popular among a broad demographicKys for perpetuating the Greek contest system.
No.1847775
>>1846940>how absurd the notion of a state acting as a mediator between capital and labor truly isAbsurd, but that is the goal of the PMC according to Ehrenreich's theory. Explains a lot of recent history, doesn't it?
>>1846944Ancestor worship is cringe and won't get your father back. Being proud of being used is mental illness and German idealism (same thing).
No.1847797
>>1847790Tankies are a chinese glow op
No.1847806
>>1847772>one-dimensional moral essentialismrecognizing different levels of class consciousness is not "moral essentialism", pomo imbecile
No.1847821
>>1847806>I am religiously committed to High Modernism and the perpetuation of class, money and the state. I am a True MarxistWhatever larper
No.1847822
>>1847806Also kys for being a pietous submissive neovagina. What part of "the point is to change it" do you want carved on your dead flesh when you're on the gibbet?
No.1847824
>>1847821>>1847822>High Modernism and the perpetuation of classyour "liquid modernity" cowardly, defeatist garbage assessment of social sciences has given us criminal bourgeois regimes like chavismo
postmodernism is obscurantist, reactionary retardation, a way for disillusioned, defeated "leftist" "intellectuals" to assimilate to bourgeois academics
class struggle is the engine of history and the revolutionary subject is the proletariat, not "diversities" and "identities". also whoever owns the means of production has concrete, tangible power, "microphysics of power" is nothing but the whine of individualist petite-bourgeois mad at the world not revolving around them
>dead flesh when you're on the gibbet?as if foucault-loving bitches have the galls to even learn to shoot a gun
No.1847833
IF I SEND DEATH THREATS TO STRANGERS ON THE INTERNET LENIN WILL SUCK MY DICK WHOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH
MOMMY!!! MOMMY I'M SO EDGYYYYYY I SPAMMED A THREAD WITH KYS MOOOOOOM!!!! MOOOOM WHERE'S MY FUCKING TENDIES MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
No.1847838
>>1847824>cowardly, defeatistYour infantile Greek way fo war shit has been disproven as cope.
>given usYou're verging on mysticism, here. You should kys for believing in providence.
>criminal>bourgeoisPick ONE, fascist
>postmodernism is obscurantistYou just don't like that your lies and dreams are being disproven and debunked by it.
>reactionary retardationYou're seeing that your sky castles were built on sand, and you're crying as material reality erodes the other man's dreams you're living in like his slave.
>a way for disillusioned, defeatedKys for loving order.
>to assimilate to bourgeois academicsYou're jealous that bourgeois science is moving slowly, and all you have left is a reactionary alt-history project and the false self-confidence of the manager who every employee is going to accident at the first opportunity.
>class struggle is the engine of historyKys for trying to conserve capitalist relations. The point is to end history at a favorable point, not to perpetuate your drama.
>and the revolutionary subject is the proletariatThose are words, yes. You also have no idea what they mean or to what circumscribed context they apply.
>not "diversities" and "identities".Kys for projecting your childish hero narratives onto the world.
>also whoever owns the means of production>owns>he thinks ownership is a real thingYou have several reasons to kys already, and now you can add labor fetishism and your intent to extend rather than abolish the proletarian condition to the list.
>has concrete, tangible powerOwnership is a social relation and you should kys for thinking that your words or feelings or your childish, vicarious fanaticism for them are important or valuable in any way.
>microphysics of powerPower is a post hoc justification of having achieved a defined outcome. You should kys for ancestor worship.
>is nothing but the whine of individualist petite-bourgeoisYou should kys for 1. trying to create gods 2. making a complete sulky teenager out of yourself in trying 3. failing
>mad at the world not revolving around themThat's why you're here extolling your fandom of some dead guy, isn't it? You're butthurt that bourgeois society has rejected your shitty little Evropean house-master lifestyle and you think you're entitled to have other people respect you.
Kys for thinking that your vicarious submission to a dead guy makes you anything but living private property, a slave. And kys for loving slavery and class.
>as if foucault-loving bitches have the galls to even learn to shoot a gunToni Negri has entered the chat and wants you to kys
No.1847839
>>1843458Being annoying finger wagers is a best case scenario. Worst case they're little handles snitching on people.
>>1843407I agree with this Anon the most. Although I will say, while you can't convert online poisoned right wingers you can confuse and discourage them. Maybe even get them to switch sides on a particular issue.
No.1847841
>>1847838<wah wah wah u believe in gods and ur evil!!!pomos on suicide watch
No.1847851
>>1847833Reactionaries need to understand that being pietous boot-gargling neovaginas won't be lauded and won't cause roses to be thrown at the ground behind them. They really do need to understand that ancestor worship, heroism, and drama are all bourgeois institutions that work to reproduce the proletarian as a submissive sheep who needs a bourgeoisie.
No.1847853
>>1847849ive been a factory worker since i became of age
also i dont know what "neovagina" means but afaik the nutcases that defend genital mutilation are pomo reactionaries
No.1847863
>>1847853The only people defending genital mutilation are right wingers and the religious. 70% of males in U.S are missing their foreskin cause the kellogs guy thought it would get Americans to stop masterbating.
Trans people being an issue is only an issue cause it's artificially boosted in the media. The way ots been working since the 60s in the U.S is the right finds some minority to scapegoat and uses them as a vehicle to get more rapacious anti worker shit passed. While the libs promise to protect the minority in exchange for more rapacious anti worker shit. It's not the lefts fault this false dichotomy exist.
No.1847870
>>1847853Modernism is reactionary. Why are you living in the past? Marx told you not to do that. Why are you doing what Marx told you not to, just because some heroic birth canal set up his self-identical self-godhood and you think his magic will rub off on you?
No.1847970
>>1843389I don't think this, I just post here because comments are removed for personally offending the schizo mods rather than for "disinformation" or other such glowbot fare.
Mods can't even convert left wingers to their schizo ideas why would it work on rightoids
No.1847978
>>1847870You fucking retard postmodernism explicitly castigates Marxism as a "meta-narrative" that holds no value you are an imbecile.
Marxist is a modernist philosophy to its very core. You should take some philosophy courses because you obviously don't understand jack shit.
No.1848097
>>1847978>postmodernism explicitlyNext time don't reify imaginary friends."Post-Modernism" is not a monolith.
>castigates Marxism as a "meta-narrative"Every political project is the real movement to impose its meta-narrative on others. It's one of the inherent contradictions in political power projection.
>that holds no valueIt doesn't. Return to Marx and stop acting out spent programs.
>Marxist is a modernist philosophy to its very coreThen Marx*ISM* is an exhausted ideology and you need to reformulate it so that your lips are not clamped around porky's corkscrew member. Return to Marx.
>You should take some philosophy coursesYou should read the Manifesto, chapter 3, section 1c, on "German or 'True' Socialism"; I'm here to kill world-gods, not to honor them.
>because you obviously don't understand jack shit.I'm not invested in the continuation of bourgeois society or Greek traditions. I'm interested in initiating the processes that lead to their permanent cashiering.
No.1848159
>>1847720>and so had to set an examplebullshit. politicians never do this. if he acted like a vegeterian it is because he WAS a vegetarian
No.1848287
>>1843389> liberal progressive idpol still seeks to overcome oppression and bring people together Lol. Lmao, even.
No.1848301
>>1848140personnally? i am a monolith.
idi ko mne
No.1848309
>>1843389>You are not converting right wingers.we do not want or need to, they're retards that will be shot if they resist. Vast majority of people are abstentionist or not really into politics and they're the ones you should "convert" (although getting sympathy from most is enough)
but most importantly
leftypol is not a place for radicalizing people and building a mass base. Do that in your country IRL, not online in an obscure edgy imageboard.
>welcoming attitude towards right wing extremists what the fuck are you talking about you moron
>appeal to /pol/acks by saying uyghur thats a worldfilter for a reason you idiot
>people with the greatest potential to be converted remain liberal progressives you mean the guys systematically backstabbing socialists movement and selling out the proletariat before allying with fascists ? the ones crying about "muh authoritarians tankies" when you try to uphold democratic centralism or defend your socialist project against wreckers and glowies ? the ones who swallow everything the mainstream liberal media rags tell them, defend nato, and cry about china ? yeah Im not convinced
No.1848313
>>1848140I'm a monolith too but not the same one as
>>1848301 No.1848319
>converting
WHAT THE FUCK DOES CLASS POSITION MEAN TO YOU PEOPLE
No.1848322
>>1847978>marxism is a philosophy>take phil classes to understand communism :)lol fucking PB retard. the flag makes this post doubly funny
No.1848439
>>1848434
>childish larp shit
You're not a leftist.
Please leave.
No.1848447
>>1848444
you don't think it's 'mean' to endorse 3d gun development to nazis can use them to kill more first graders?
No.1848530
>>1843389This idea that any deviation from mainstream liberalism on social issues could only be an attempt to appeal to rightoids is such condescending bullshit, it just casually dismisses any criticisms without attempting to refute them, and a lot of that crap is rooted in poststructuralism and other anti-Marxist frameworks. Feminism in particular was identified by the old, Marxist left as a bourgeois ideology and has a history going back over a century of working hand-in-hand with the center-right and even far-right against the left, yet is somehow seen as beyond reproach by both liberals and the modern "left".
>And unlike the liberal progressive idpol it‘s actually pro-actively divisive while liberal progressive idpol still seeks to overcome oppression and bring people together this wayWhat exactly is the basis of your claim that "progressive" idpol isn't overtly and deliberately divisive? A lot of rhetoric from the modern "left" is just pointlessly belligerent and only serves to push people to the right who would otherwise be indifferent or supportive of left-wing political positions, there's a reason the rightoids loved to circulate that clip of some scrawny dweeb screaming "YOU'RE A FUCKING WHITE MALE" as a pejorative, it allowed them to point to it and say "See? The left hates your guts, not because of anything you've actually done, but simply because of who you are!".
Remember that godawful "die cis scum" slogan that was often talked about online back in the early/mid 10s? IIRC the person who coined that stupid phrase was eventually found to not even be trans, but a feminist deliberately trying to false-flag and incite anger against trans people, because anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together can tell that acting like an asshole to people for no good reason- or worse, on the basis of some notion of collective guilt tied to their "identity"- is going to make them justifiably defensive and hostile to you. When supposed "leftists" act indistinguishable from right-wing false flag attempts the results of their actions are exactly the same regardless of whatever beliefs they may genuinely hold, and frankly I'd say that any sort of ideological framework that would lead someone to such positions is fundamentally right-wing to begin with, even if they're superficially at odds with the more mainstream rightoids.
When the only options presented to people are different flavors of rightoid bullshit I can hardly fault people for choosing the one that at least pretends to care about them, and I do think many of those people would be supportive of actual universalist, left-wing positions if such an option were actually presented to them and not constantly conflated with the "woke" flavor of rightoid nonsense.
No.1848538
>>1848439>>1848447Well that was unnecessary.
No.1848551
>>1848447Excuse me this is a revolution, not a cuddle puddle
>>1848530>This idea that any deviation from mainstream liberalism on social issues could only be an attempt to appeal to rightoids is such condescending bullshitUtterances made without regard to truth (bullshit) in order to establish a superior position (condescending). That's exactly what it is, even in a technical sense.
>When the only options presented to people are different flavors of rightoid bullshit I can hardly fault people for choosingI can fault people for not investigating the choice, and refusing to take part in institutions that intentionally generate unfavorable outcomes, much less as a goddamn sport.
No.1848556
>>1848538bro he was a nazi united-frontist, he deserved it and more
No.1848754
I was formerly very right wing but got converted into a communist. If people didn't reach that branch out to me, it sends shivers down my spine what political views I would hold.
No.1849071
He is right
No.1849151
>>1848754What made you switch?
No.1850565
>>1848097>Marxism is an exhausted ideology and you need to reformulate it You just proved his point about postmodernism being anti-communism.
>>1848322>Marxism is a philosophyHe's right you economic brained retard.
No.1850612
>>1850565Communism fetishism is reactionary. You can start a monastery around your fascist god any time you like.
Return to Marx.
No.1850621
>>1850612>Communism fetishism is reactionaryyou need a lobotomy
No.1850627
>>1850621You need to be the town's onahole
No.1850932
>>1850627guys go to the gay thread if you want to flirt please
No.1851508
Maybe not neo-nazis but the average religious working joe absolutely stands to gain from understanding Marxism and Leninism. I mean Trump won because he kept promising massive infrastructure investment and job production with rhetoric that he was going to "protect" them from bougie interest groups. Remember the lobbyist stuff? Liberal progressives are openly campaigning to imprison these people.
Meanwhile, you anarchist NEETs do absolutely nothing to drive change while you just sit around online alienating any potential bridge for mass appeal. You'll continue calling every worker a racist, transphobe while you run around burning cars and calling for the banning of trucks in the name of da environment. You'll continue your degrowth, suicide rhetoric of banning all energy sources except solar panels and windmills (lmao). All productive labor must be banned! The working class will hate you because literally nobody likes it when some rainbow haired person named "Ketchup" calls them a fascist while they block a highway and spray paint buildings with BLM or whatever trendy thing is going on.
Soc-dems have a better plan than you. They at least have a plan of deradicalizing the far-right to convert them to the DNC in the vain hope that they'll *eventually* pass student loan forgiveness, while you guys just run around victimizing yourselves while calling everyone and everything fascist. Your "movement" (it doesn't move anything) is promoted on algorithms precisely because it's a giant waste of time.
>bu-but I'm not an anarchist
Yeah whatever dawg I recognize the language and whining. You have absolutely no desire to connect to the real working class masses and instead just want a fbi.gov server where you and your rainbow hair friends talk about how right you are while nothing happens. American socialism will have American characteristics while you sit there fantasizing about turning America into whatever nordic country you like, assumedly by just whining on twitter.
No.1852030
>>1850936<3>>1851508>do absolutely nothing to drive changeStop worshipping some self-reproducing lie, you virtue signaling middle class retard.
>doing somethingVirtue signallers need to be made to dig ditches as a penalty for performing the emotions of institutions.
Unique IPs: 71