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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1713868076798.jpg (64.51 KB, 570x712, trotsky_360x450.jpg)

 No.1833102[View All]

He seemed pretty based, bit of an oopsie with that whole "No peace, No war" thing, but he redeemed himself by locking the fuck in and saving everyone's ass during the civil war.

He was also Lenin's guy and he seemed pretty smart, but whenever I talk to other leftists or socialists he is kinda seen as a joke, and he and his theory is not taken very seriously (see icepick memes). Either that or I see "Trotskyist" used as a general slur against leftist/communist orgs people don't like.

What is this about? Is Trotskyism legit brainlet tier or is this just a leftover from the Stalin days? What are your opinions on the Trot? Can he be redeemed?
58 posts and 3 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1833507

>>1833239
>Oh, you mean Nazis threw an overwhelming amount of corpses at Soviets, and managed to push through as a result???
That's exactly what they did in the beginning of Operation Barbarossa.

 No.1833512

Kentucky Fried Chicken
Its finger picking good.

 No.1833516

>>1833502
>Most don't know even know why they hate Trotsky since the actual disputes are pretty esoteric, just that they're supposed to as a good "communist" or whatever.
It's called doing a 'meme'.

 No.1833612

File: 1713901708009.png (67.77 KB, 236x400, mexican trotsky.png)

Leon was just salty he lost the power struggle to uncle Joe, refusing to take the L

 No.1833618

>>1833612
>it is sane to have parasocial relationships with dead people and develop fandoms around them
I know this is an imageboard but sneed

 No.1833715

>>1833102
Stalin fans (I won't call them Tankies or Stalinists to avoid getting banned, maybe someone can propose a label for them that's acceptable on this site…), well they have disagreements with both Trotskyism and with Anarchism, obviously.
So I wonder, what do you make of Trotsky killing off all the Anarchists in their various rebellions? Do you think Trotsky was good at least in regards to having shot then Anarchists in the back? Or do you think it was just another sign of Trotsky being untrustworthy?

 No.1833728

Respect for his contributions to the revolution and civil war, but he was far too provocative and reckless in his rhetoric and organizing after the armed struggle had ended. I think the "Trotskyist-Zinoviete conspiracy" is basically a total fabrication in the sense its talked about 99% of the time, but he did alienate himself from much of the party leadership and recklessly organized in opposition to the party at an extremely fragile time. His writings arent terrible but also areny especially valuable because his analysis was so warped by resentment and egoism.

 No.1833730

>>1833715
WHAT DISAGREEMENTS?!
No one has fucking stated any.
I'm a "Stalinist" and I couldn't seriously care any less about Trotsky, 0 fucks given about this character. If he has good theory then cool, I have yet to be recommended ANY book by him, especially one that makes people call themselves Trotskyists.

What fucking fundamental differences are there between pragmatic, get shit done, Marxist praxis (aka communists, socialists, MLs, Marxists, leninists, apparently stalinists) and trotkyists.

Someone fucking tell me now.

 No.1833738

>>1833730
If you don't want to read theory and educate yourself on the differences between Trotskyism and the positions of the USSR under Stalin that's on you
It's extremely easy to look this shit up and I'm not here to baby sit you or stop you from crying when you mommy doesn't spoon-feed you

 No.1833747

>>1833715

I think everyone knew the anarchists were never going to survive, except the anarchists maybe lol. There was a brief alliance against a common enemy, but neither the reds or the blacks were ever gonna let each other be. Trotsky just happened to be the one to do the dirty

>>1833728
He was certainly a megalomaniacal figure, always thought he was right about everything and everyone else was retarded and even when he massively blundered he would just shift blame.

That kinda made him a real one tho, it's very leftycore

 No.1833823

File: 1713912432759.png (2.3 MB, 3000x2355, mahkno and his bestie.png)

>>1833747
>I think everyone knew the anarchists were never going to survive, except the anarchists maybe lol. There was a brief alliance against a common enemy, but neither the reds or the blacks were ever gonna let each other be. Trotsky just happened to be the one to do the dirty

 No.1834239

>>1833730
Trotsky is failed Stalin, that's it.

 No.1835914

>>1833129
>quotes a bunch of Stalin
wow unbiased analysis I'm sure.

 No.1835926

>>1833150
Honestly, it's a bit funky to judge orgs based on their (nominal) ideology.
The two major orgs in my area are both officially Cliffite Trotskyists, but one is actually doing useful communist shit and the other is an absolute cult sabotaging any other group and alienating everyone by being absolute toxic dickheads. Literally changing numbers to continue harassing people who were naïve enough to sign their petition.
I even know a couple of people in the good trot org who are secretly M–L and just want to be in a group that gets shit done. Ideology is ultimately less important than material reality.

 No.1835938

>>1833102
>What are your opinions on the Trot?
I think most of his theory is actually all right but maybe specific policies werent correct for the exact material conditions where he was advocating them. The real problem with him was that he didn't respect the democratic process or democratic centralism. He lost the vote and then tried to overthrow the government and worked undermine the dictatorship of the proletariat.

 No.1835942

He came out big against bubble gum and that makes the kiddoes mad TO THIS VERY DAY

 No.1836098

He was an ideological globalist wanting to wage worldwide war for communism instead of propping up the soviet economy so by it's blatant superiority across the world it would spread naturally

 No.1836099

>>1833125
>Who was he genocidely racist against?
Russians

 No.1836101

>>1833102
Ideologue. Stalinism is the logical conclusion of leninism, Trotsky wanted to make things like a one party social democracy

 No.1836102

He ran away from the Turkish consulate he was stashed in.

 No.1836125

>>1836098
>so by it's blatant superiority across the world it would spread naturally
hows that working out for us?

 No.1836126

>>1836125
where are socialist countries? It would work just fine in a non interventionist world. but imperialists exists. That is why Mao was right in designating anti imperialism to be the number one priority of communist movements

 No.1836381

>>1833107
> writing articles openly praising Hitler,
link?

 No.1836391

>>1836101
So Trotsky wanted to make Stalinism?

 No.1836405


 No.1836410

>>1836405
Thank you for this unhinged wiki full of inaccuracies, conspiracy theories, and anachronisms, it's very entertaining.

 No.1836413

>>1836410
What inaccuracies, conspiracy theories, and anachronisms?
Any examples that you found?

 No.1836431

>>1836405
Zinoviev believed Russia was not developed enough to build socialism. Following the 14th Congress of the CPSU in 1925, he called a meeting of the Leningrad Provincial Committee of the YCL, which refused to follow the Congress's decision promoting industrialization.[2]

In 1926, Trotsky and Zinoviev formed an anti-Party bloc and rejected democratic centralism. The Central Committee expelled them from the party in November 1927.[5] Zinoviev organized the murder of Sergei Kirov in 1934.[6]

rotsky opposed the New Economic Policy.[7] He soon went in opposition to Lenin and formed an opposition bloc in 1926 with Zinoviev. A joint meeting of the Central Committee and the Central Control Commission expelled Trotsky from the party in November 1927.[8] He argued that Stalin's government had entered a stage of bureaucracy and believed that terrorism against the Soviet Union was inevitable.[9]

 No.1836482

>>1836413
There is zero direct evidence Trotsky ever worked with the feds or the fascists, it's also anachronistic to speak of Marxist Leninists as contemporaries of Lenin, as Marxism Leninism was created after his death by Stalin.

 No.1836524

>>1836482
Huh… just like Marxism was created after the death of Marx by Lenin. Intredasting

 No.1836543

>>1836524
When Stalin led the bourgeois counter revolution he created Marxist Leninism as an ideological framework to justify and support it, it has in truth not much to do with Marx or Lenin

 No.1836555

>>1836543
In fact, I believe Stalin wrote down some of Lenin's views in the book "Foundations of Leninism" and later changed it to say the opposite.

 No.1836558

>>1836543
Stalin was the only leader that imperial core truly feared. What are you on?

 No.1836562

>>1836558
Well yeah, Stalin and his views were still a threat to capitalism, even if they were more nationalistic.

 No.1836575

>>1836524
baby brain

 No.1837766

>>1836558
Not really, only a threat to capitalists. Bourgeois rapine continues in different livery with a different song, that's all.

 No.1837781

>>1836558
What a fucking joke. They knew they could work with Stalin. It's just they could only work with him so far because he was leading a non-capitalist state they wanted to overthrow.

Stalin always promoted "peaceful coexistence" with imperialism because his dumbass thought you could build socialism in a single country. That's why we didn't fight for socialism in Spain (gotta keep muh bourgeois democracy), in Germany (after Hitler, us!), in France (muh popular front), and only, only carried out a revolution from above in eastern Europe after he was fucking forced to

Stalinism is reactionary and bankrupt. It's effects have retarded the international working class movement, dragged the name of communism through the mud, and made the average person associate communism with gulags, police state repression, and complete hypocrisy

 No.1837788

>>1837781
*he, not we

 No.1838540

>>1833823
This meme is pure fiction btw, even from the POV of Makhno and his writings himself. Lenin was never amicable to any real extent to the Makhnovists, extremely short alliances against the Whites notwithstanding.

 No.1838847

>>1837781
>because his dumbass thought you could build socialism in a single country

<Uneven economic and political development is an absolute law of capitalism. Hence, the victory of socialism is possible first in several or even in one capitalist country alone. After expropriating the capitalists and organising their own socialist production, the victorious proletariat of that country will arise against the rest of the world

lenin
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1915/aug/23.htm

Gullible Trots will do anything besides read Lenin and swallow imperialist propaganda whole

 No.1839756

>>1837781
>Stalinism is reactionary and bankrupt. It's effects have retarded the international working class movement
Trot rats cheered on Soviet destruction after 70 years of pressure from outside and within
Stalinism was discredited after the End of History. How did the working class movement develop since 1991?
Trots have had the enitre floor for 30 years. What trot achievements are there?
Oh wait Stalinism is popular again
>made the average person associate communism with gulags, police state repression, and complete hypocrisy
No US imperialism and its propaganda apparatus did that whilst trots dumbly nodded and agreed to every retarded lie the imperialists spreas

 No.1840358

>>1837781
> made the average person associate communism with gulags, police state repression, and complete hypocrisy

lmao implying Trotsky wouldn't have done any of those things/have been even more coldblooded than Stalin

 No.1840367

<By combining the nationalized key industries, your private businesses and democratic consumer cooperation, you will quickly develop a highly flexible system for serving the needs of your population.

<This system will be made to work not by bureaucracy and not by policemen but by cold, hard cash.


<Your almighty dollar will play a principal part in making your new soviet system work. It is a great mistake to try to mix a “planned economy” with a “managed currency.” Your money must act as regulator with which to measure the success or failure of your planning.


<Your “radical” professors are dead wrong in their devotion to “managed money.” It is an academic idea that could easily wreck your entire system of distribution and production. That is the great lesson to be derived from the Soviet Union, where bitter necessity has been converted into official virtue in the monetary realm.


<There the lack of a stable gold ruble is one of the main causes of our many economic troubles and catastrophes.

WTF is this shit
<As a matter of fact, during the first few years a planned economy needs sound money even more than did old-fashioned capitalism. The professor who regulates the monetary unit with the aim of regulating the whole business system is like the man who tried to lift both his feet off the ground at the same time.
🙄 Remember kids, it is literally impossible to abandon the gold standard under capitalism and even under the lower phase of communism…
<Soviet America will possess supplies of gold big enough to stabilize the dollar – a priceless asset. In Russia we have been expanding our industrial plant by 20 and 30 percent a year; but – owing to a weak ruble – we have not been able to distribute this increase effectively.
Marxism-Ronpaulism.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1934/08/ame.htm

 No.1840391

what's my name

 No.1840400

>>1840367
Does anyone has a graph or a good soviet study about the history of monetary policies of the soviet union? A graph to show the "rate of inflation" and the "money supply", for example? Found an article on JStor about it but is not free, lol. Most data i found begins calculating the inflation in 1992. Not very helpful.

Very cringe and glowie article i found about it
https://dc.etsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2667&context=etd
The Role of Inflation in Soviet History: Prices, Living Standards,
and Political Change
Steven M. Efremov
East Tennessee State University

Inflation first started in the Russian Empire during the First World War and led to higher
food prices in the cities, which were major factor in creating urban discontent and bringing down
both the imperial and provisional governments.

However, when the Bolsheviks took over, they
made living conditions even worse by trying to create a moneyless economy. This attempt,
known as war communism, created hyperinflation, a major famine, shortages of goods, and
rebellions by peasants and sailors.

The Bolsheviks were forced to establish a stable currency and
allow some market activity in order to keep from being overthrown like the two governments
before them. They managed to stabilize the ruble by balancing their budget and backing the
currency with gold.

The economy made an astounding recovery in the 1920s under the New
Economic Policy, but industrial prices rose much faster than agricultural prices on the open
market. The Bolshevik leaders responded by crowding out private merchants and re-imposing
price controls. They also continued to purchase grain from the peasants at artificially low rates,
which made them reluctant to sell. These factors inspired the decision to proceed with full-scale
state industrialization and collectivization.

During the Stalin years, the Russian economy had different types of stores with varying
degrees of price controls and inflation. Strict price controls were in place in most state stores and
co-operatives, while others were allowed to sell at higher regulated rates. While these stores had
low prices, they also had shortages and a poor selection of products. In contrast, collective farm
markets were completely free to set their prices according to market forces, but their prices were
usually much higher.

During the Second World War, the government started running budget
deficits and printing too much money again, leading to even higher inflation. State stores and
co-operatives remained under price control and had relatively moderate inflation, but the
collective farm markets had price increases that bordered on hyperinflation. Inflation began to
decline in 1944, after the Soviet government balanced its budget, and was eliminated completely
after a currency reform in 1947.

Glowipedia:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_early_Soviet_Russia#Coming_of_the_NEP_period_(Spring_1921)


Anyway, i am quite interested in the subject, don't know anything about macroeconomics or economy in general, so i would like to know more about the subject. If anyone has good suggestions or better sources please share.
But today is may day, and i have stuff to do. I will read those stuff later

 No.1840401

"After NEP ended, the Soviet government introduced a multi-tiered price system with
varying degrees of price controls. In 1928-29, rationing of food and consumer good became
widespread throughout Russia. According to Alec Nove, this was “perhaps the first and only
recorded instance of the introduction of rationing in time of peace.”4
Goods were sold at the
official ration prices in state stores, which required ration coupons, but other types of stores had
other price levels, ranging from controlled to free. Workers were able to purchase some items
from special shops that were closed to the public, where prices were higher but the workers were
able to get items unavailable elsewhere. Food and manufactured goods were also sold to the
working class in other stores for prices that were above rationed levels, but below commercial
prices. Other stores, known as torgsin, had goods available only in exchange for precious metals
or foreign currency, which the state badly needed. Finally, prices freely were set by market
forces at peasant bazaars, kolkhoz (collective farm) markets, and black markets.

Unsurprisingly, prices rose much faster where they were influenced by market forces,
than in state stores, in which inflationary pressure manifested itself in shortages instead.
Artificially low prices led to products selling out quickly and shelves laying barren until the next
delivery. In state stores, consumers were expected to take whatever they could find and move
on. These problems developed as soon the government was able to effectively enforce price
controls and continued, to varying degrees, for the rest of Soviet history. Consumer demand that
went unfulfilled in state stores spilled over into the tiny market sector. Because the free sector
was so small in comparison to the excess demand created at state stores, market prices often had
to be several times higher than official ones, in order for supply and demand to balance. For
instance, commercial prices, which were set by the state but close to market rates, were twenty
times higher for bread in 1933, six times higher for sugar, and fourteen times higher for
sunflower oil

Inflation started getting out of control during the Second World War. Due to the
necessary war expenditures, the Soviet government started running its first budget deficits since
the stabilization under NEP and was forced to pay for some percentage of these with new
currency issues. During the war, strict price controls and subsidies kept inflation in official
stores limited. However, collective farm market prices began increasing much faster than they
had during the 1930s and reached hyperinflationary levels during the war. After 1944, the
government was able to balance its budget again and increase the supply of goods in state stores,
so the rate of inflation began to decline from the peak of 1943. Nevertheless, official prices were
almost four times higher in 1947 than they had been in 1940, while kolkhoz prices were six and a
half times higher than 1940 levels and four times higher than state prices at the time. Thus, the
Soviet economy was suffering from both high rates of both open and repressed inflation."
https://dc.etsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2667&context=etd

 No.1840509

<Trotsky wasn’t a coward, was he?
>No, he was courageous. He was in exile, then escaped, and then was sent to prison. He lived in America. In 1905 he became chairman of the first Soviet of Workers’ Deputies in Petersburg. He left again in 1906 or at the beginning of 1907, and returned for the second time in 1917. He was a man of means. First, he published a newspaper. Second, he apparently was well off.
>I read his autobiography. He begins with his mother and himself going to visit a neighboring landlord in Khersonchshina.
>He was about five years old,and he played with a girl of the same age there and peed in his pants. To describe that! What a vain man!

Trotsky bros, how do you explain thiws?

 No.1840517

Hero worship is inseparable from reaction.

 No.1841539

>>1838540
>>1838847
>trot uyghurs when they read Lenin and are forced to confront their wildly differing political views to Lenin

 No.1841541

File: 1714645661491.mp4 (517.54 KB, 640x360, vk-video-givefastlink.mp4)



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