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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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 No.1826881

The argument of the video goes:
>mayor of Brussels bans fascist rally
>fascists whine about it
>the victim narrative attracts people
>they do the same thing to the left using this logic
Like, I'm just not convinced that this is what would happen in real life. It certainly makes for a compelling Christian tale, but if there is one thing to take from the post-WW2 history of the Left, it's that political suppression makes you more likely to be (surprise) politically suppressed. They're not wrong that there needs to be a solution to the problems leading people towards fascism, but one of those problems is the fact that fascists are allowed to run rampant without being repressed or humiliated.

Historically, when fascism has taken root in countries like Italy or Germany, it was in large part because the political institutions of those countries were unwilling to beat them up and make them fuck off or supported fascism. I'm no Stalinist, but if you punish fascists, take away their media platforms and break up their gatherings, you can probably keep them from power. Antifa had the right idea during the pre-pandemic time when they would go to protests and show resistance. The Left should be making noise about fascists being allowed to go out in public in the first place and advocating for the state to be used against them if we already know that in the nearest conceivable future there probably won't be a huge revolution sweeping across Europe. Would it keep fascism from sprouting? It would probably still exist. But suppressing it and keeping it away from power is a good idea. Victim narratives don't actually give you a power-up, if your guys get chased away and go home, they won't magically rise up and throw away everything they have. Make them feel unwelcome, make fascism feel repulsive to the average person, and keep people away from it with the threat of state violence. It's not a pretty or long-lasting solution, but it is what our institutions and communities should do and what the Left should advocate for.

 No.1826893

>Fidesz is fascist

 No.1826894

>>1826881
The only suppression of fascism that works is violence
once you start punching and killing fascists on the streets unless they Out violence you their main "thing" of being unstopable ubermen goes right out the window
basically punch the fash or burn the fash or acid attack the fash

 No.1826895

>gay ass burger style conference a la CPAC is made impossible in the EU by a liberal mayor
<LIBS ARE FIGHTING FASCISTS!!!

 No.1826899

>>1826894
Yeah its sad to say, but the whole "punch a nazi" thing worked very well and my side just hid behind muh polite society and freeze peach bullshit
But thats also why the only true fascist praxis terrorism, otherwise it delves into a bourgeois morality.
The larping demonstrations and simulated street brawls is part of the degen.erate videogame consciousness and the only way to relate to Life is to relate to Death principally, as heidegger understood.

 No.1826901

>>1826895
I'm saying they should actually oppress fascists instead of doing minor shit like this dumbass

 No.1826906

>>1826901
Why would you expect liberals to oppress "fascists"?

 No.1826910

>>1826906
You have Lula available as an immediate example of an elected center-left official who took steps to actually prosecute right-wingers in his country. It's not impossible, and it would be even more possible if people actively demanded it instead of being told we can't do it because freeze peach or you have to wait for the revolution. Are you fucking stupid? Can you read?

 No.1826911

>Historically, when fascism has taken root in countries like Italy or Germany, it was in large part because the political institutions of those countries were unwilling to beat them up

lol. lmao even.

 No.1826912

>>1826899
first of all you are the ideal fascist (an uneducated imbecile)
as a fascist you must understand you hold the upper hand in politics as you can change whatever you belive in at the drop of a hat to get support from whoever The left (must) can not
the street fights were the american fascists attempting their own beer hall
now those conferences where they try to get "The good old boys" and "conservatives" on their side are more effective
either way im gonna gut you when the time comes like my grandpa did to your idols

 No.1826913

>>1826911
Weimar courts were famous for not letting things slide for fascists and right-wingers after all!

 No.1826914

>>1826911
>I am unable to comprehend how fascism gets into power
thank you anon please go back to reddit where you and your comrades can Vote blue no matter who

 No.1826916

>>1826912
We'll see.

 No.1826917

>>1826914
give me a break, you guys are serious?

<fascism is a grass roots movement of le ebil people that can be stopped by courts


fucking morons.

 No.1826918

>>1826910
Lula as "center left" is nowhere represented among EU ruling parties. The "left" in the EU are all neolibs. So who are you expecting to the oppressing, again?

 No.1826919

>>1826917
>Fascism is when the government supports some angry right wing people
learn to read

 No.1826920

File: 1713352703313.jpg (20.93 KB, 628x401, DSBWodKWAAACvee.jpg)


 No.1826923

>>1826917
I'm saying you should prosecute them for the crimes they openly commit, close their venues, shut down their platforms and send cops to punch their shit in

 No.1826924

>>1826923
What crimes did Nigel Farage openly commit?
>INB4 Brexit

 No.1826925

>>1826918
Stop being obtuse on purpose. Even neolibs can be forced to do something if enough people want it. I'm saying we should use the reach the Left possesses though media like OP vidrel, elected officials, and protests to establish the process of state repression directed towards fascists becoming a common thing.

 No.1826926

>>1826924
Crashing a plane. Burgers launched two decade long wars over that.

 No.1826928

>>1826925
>the (nonexistent) EU "left" should ask the ruling neolibs to oppress "fascists" (conservatives)

 No.1826929

>>1826924
Plenty of Nazis use violence or go out in Nazi gear in plain daylight in places where it's forbidden and don't get prosecuted as long as nobody gets killed

 No.1826930


 No.1826933

>>1826929
Cool. Answer the question now.

 No.1826934

>>1826928
There are, factually speaking, leftists being elected in the EU, like the Communist Party of Austria gaining popularity in local elections or Pellegrini in Slovakia winning the presidential election

 No.1826935


 No.1826936


 No.1826937

>>1826934
>local elections

 No.1826942

File: 1713354423519.png (65.78 KB, 601x513, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1826881
>Suella Braverman
ah yes, truly someone who cares about frozen peaches.

 No.1827033

>>1826881
No, suppressing fascism just makes it suppressed in overt manners. Grassroot operations are more organic and generally lead to popular support.
One example I know is the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. They were suppressed by the government for decades, and they worked in local communities, making charities, local events, programs like Islamic studies in mosques and such, so when Mubarak fell, they got to win the elections.

They were quite immature politically. The number one rule in politics: don't give your trust away for free.

They did no purges and kept many from the previous government trying to "win them over", but the big business families that own most of the Egyptian economy easily worked with the military, mobilized their media, to create a coup.
Funnily enough, Bassem Youssef's show despite always criticizing the Muslim Brotherhood and Islamists in general, his show went on. Islamists only name called him on their TV channels. It was until Sisi came to power than once he made fun of the military, he was taken into investigation and had to flee before he was arrested.

Anyways, any suppression of fascism should be done with grassroot movements, because that will be their turf if suppressed overtly.
There is a reason Nazism was popular. Even before they took power, the Nazi Party offered social welfare programs to its members and supporters, like: soup kitchens, employment assistance, and financial aid. Propaganda alone can't do anything in a place with a diverse political atmosphere like pre-1933 Germany.

They knew how important these programs were to get and maintain support, so even after they got power, despite running their economy to the ground, they still had many social programs and inflated the government with practically guaranteed jobs, thus pay. They've implemented many social security programs as well as many charities like winter relief, Winterhilfswerk, which collected donations and distributed food, clothing, and fuel to impoverished Germans.
Their Strength Through Joy (Kraft durch Freude, KdF) program was another example. A leisure organization founded in 1933 to provide recreational activities, cultural events, and affordable vacations for workers. It offered subsidized vacations, cruises, concerts, and other entertainment to promote loyalty to the regime and boost morale among the working class.

Anyways, a parallel example is early Christianity. You literally cannot spread a religion by simply telling people about your fairytales.
Alsgiving, which is charity to the poor and needy, provided support and care for their members, especially widows, orphans, and the marginalized.
Made infirmaries to care for the sick and injured, regardless of their religious or social status.
Early Christians took in orphaned and abandoned children, and also helped prisoners and slaves.
They formed tight-knit communities where members cared for one another's physical, emotional, and spiritual needs.

Missionaries still do the same thing to day to spread Christianity as well.

Either way, this is to prove a point, which is that fascism and Nazism or any form of authoritarian political structure cannot be simply suppressed. People are more complex than just shutting them down. The same can be argued about many marginalized communities and how they managed to achieve their social justice despite suppression.

 No.1827080

>>1826881
>"repressing fascism gives it a victim narrative"
They have been giving themselves a "victim narrative" since forever, even when they were in government of major western powers and they had the tacit backing of other western powers. One shouldn't really care about that. They'll do it anyway. And no one can change that.
The actual thing to do, in a hypothetical socialist state, would be to set up one or even more state-sanctioned parties in a similar vein to the DDR NPD - not the Worst German one, obviously - entirely controlled by the government through blackmail - they are all thugs, gangsters, drug traffickers, pedos and the like - and at the same time unleash a furious yet very covert and very surgical liquidation strategy for everyone of them not being docile enough to accept the "indian reservation" the state will offer them.
Obviously such a strategy should only be applicable after a revolutionary or civil war scenario ending in the establishment of a socialist state where a large number of those undesirable elements have already being turned into dust.

 No.1827085

I agree with you OP idk why so many in this thread are being retarded

 No.1827088

>>1826899
>the only true fascist praxis terrorism, otherwise it delves into a bourgeois morality.
fascism is bourgeois morality

 No.1827099

>>1826919
Fascism is when capitalist states use angry right wing people as death squads to crush worker uprisings and revolutions, yes.

 No.1827100

File: 1713368278127.jpg (160.32 KB, 1024x950, 7375496710_728486de68_b.jpg)

>>1827088
You dont have to be bourgeois to be a *gentleman*

 No.1827102

>>1827080
>They have been giving themselves a "victim narrative" since forever, even when they were in government of major western powers and they had the tacit backing of other western powers. One shouldn't really care about that. They'll do it anyway. And no one can change that.
This, the Nazis were all about that "muh backstabbed in WW1 !!!!!" shit from the get-go.

 No.1827107

>>1827102
But that was true
Europe and (((international finance))) literally wanted to destroy germany

 No.1827111

>>1827107
And how is it a "backstab" when it was always apparent?
The German empire was a threat to the British and French empires, which is why they (with the help of Americans demanding that the debts be repaid) made sure to impoverish Germany and disolve their entire colonial empire after the war ended. But instead of blaming the French and the Anglos, you have some retarded obsesion with Jews instead.

 No.1827126

>>1827111
Der Fuehrer took his revenge against the frogs through occupation and still had the blitz against britain. Without eastern expansion and american intervention, things would have ended very differently.

 No.1827132

>>1826910
>Lula
Lula is not prosecuting the Brazilian right except Bolsonaro and his goons. There are other right forces that Lula works with.

 No.1827137

>>1826910
>Lula literally is doing a president Camacho vs Lil congress
Lol. You are just doing a grandiose approach to a problem by seeing great-men-of-historiytis. The recourse of who has not read enough

 No.1827177

>>1827107
Read some Michael Hudson, you silly moron.

 No.1827191

>>1827177
I like hudson interviews (monologues)
But whats his relevance here?

 No.1827208

>>1827191
The introduction of his "Super Imperialism" explains how Burgerland demanded its "allies" to pay back their debts in full - America was a huge lender to Britain and France - so they went hard at Versailles against defeated Germany, because they relied on German reparations to pay their debts owed to America. That's what put the squeeze on Germany and opened the doors to the hysterical Austrian painter in his rise to power - aside from the friendly assistance he got from the local succdems in assassinating communists.
Also, MH goes on long monologues because he's a very old man and that's normal. He also knows an incredible amount of things, so every time he speaks, it's worth to listen.

 No.1827275

>>1826881
>The Left should be making noise about fascists being allowed to go out in public in the first place and advocating for the state to be used against them if we already know that in the nearest conceivable future there probably won't be a huge revolution sweeping across Europe.
Here's the thing, fascism is the bourgeoisie emergency button. Even if the state is used against the fascists, when the bourgeoisie needs them, it will stop repressing the movement.
The only force able to resist fascism is the organized radical left, the communists.

 No.1827336

>>1827275
Yeah, the US state suppressed the shit out of the kkk until it came to virtually run the organization, then used it as a goon squad to knock off leftists and reformers.

 No.1829038

Came across this absolutely retarded video of a speech by Stalin which has obviously been edited to portray the german invaders as victims and Stalin as saying to 'exterminate all germans'.
Audio changes after 1:30, no reverb after Stalin talks.
Choppy voice, can't even make out what he's saying at 1:39
meanwhile subtitles:
>our task will be to exterminate all the Germans, to the last one.
Most comments don't even notice this, rather some use it for more anti-soviet circlejerk.

 No.1829051

File: 1713547453856.png (248.25 KB, 1049x530, nazi retard.png)

>>1829038
>Most comments don't even notice this
Lmao, insane levels of autism coming from nazi sympathizers. They don't even know what year the war ended.

 No.1829620

>>1826881
what does sending the coppers out to protect the fascists from getting skull fractures do?

 No.1829640

File: 1713569337475.png (400.51 KB, 1137x860, 1713544289247259.png)

Alright, but fascism should be suppressed because fascists' speech annoys me personally

 No.1829832

I’d say the flaw with anti fascism pre WW2 was that they were never willing to just kill the leaders of fascist parties. But that aside, in my studies on Fascism I’d say the argument (“if you repress fascists you’ll make them martyrs”) is complex. Not an entirely either or deal.

Mosley and the BUF experienced some moderate levels of repression—being banned from speaking at venues, for example, and he would often utilize that in his propaganda. One of his better rhetorical twists was almost Trumpian; he would talk about how the media was against them, how they couldn’t get a public meeting in most places, and then would point to the fact he could still draw massive rallies at shit like the Earl’s Court Peace Rally. It’s a pretty powerful bit of propaganda
>”The media won’t report on us because they said we aren’t relevant to people but we filled a whole stadium just to hear me speak!”
I think there’s more to suppression driving support than just a Christian narrative. I also think Western Communists are way to quick to blame their failures on being “suppressed” well past the point of reason
>”How did PLO/other Leftist movements fall so far from their peak?”
<“Well they were suppressed!”
It puts the ball of historical agency in the Bourgeoisie’s court and implies a movement can’t succeed if you attempt to suppress it.

What matters is analyzing the movement being suppressed and who are doing the suppression. We’ve been very privileged to not have to deal with a fascist of the old style who can present their ideas as reasonable. We’ve had skinheads and other antisocial freaks for the most part, their “politics” almost always devolving down to “we want to harass X group and intimidate them!” While they can maybe get limited gains from claiming their ideas are so true they’re being censored, those gains only come from people already paranoid that some nebulous “they” is lying to them. Among normal people it’s like—“well no shit!”

It’s also why the Right has so much trouble mimicking leftist protests. It almost always revolves around “let us torture this one group of people!” And so when it’s suppressed it doesn’t come across like beating down on someone already beaten down. Jared Taylor is a notable exception, I think, mostly because he lets the vicious repression necessary to build a white ethnostate hang as an implication. When he speaks he’s real soft spoken and genial. I vaguely remember Cenk from TYT debating him once, and from what I recall Cenk came across as a belligerent jerk because for as much as Taylor’s ideas are bad, he would try to present them as “reasonable” and Cenk was wholly unable to hide his disgust at the man. He had a similar issue when he tried debating some female “anti-feminist” and he kept talking over her and demanding she make him a sandwich and shut up or whatever.

If your opponent is a shrieking monkey, you should be a fox. If your opponent is a fox, you have to outfox them. I don’t think there any harm in repressing some skinheaded thugs, but with Taylor you can end up looking like a bunch of thugs beating up some old guy, even if his ideas are bad.

It’s why I’ve sounded alarm bells about clever fascists so much. Also why I think Mosley is worth researching if you’re in the anglophone world—because he was a thinker. He had this genial British quality to him. His whole shtick was trying to present his ideas as reasonable rather than thuggish. The fact he also was a peace advocate in contrast to the expansionist goals of continental fascists gives his rhetoric a less vicious quality. You have to learn to deal with the best of your enemies, not just the most stupid of them.


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