/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

Reminder that the russian revolution not only was done by desesperate peasants and workers but by organizing them.
Reminder that the chinese revolution was done not by desesperate peasants but as also organizing them to the party.
Reminder that those countries are continentally sized and were in worse conditions for a revolution.
You just need to fucking go outside and stop using channer words like goyslop.
This thread is retarded and bring no further discussion than "oh this situation is bad we cant do it"
There is a godanm revolution in philippines and we had one recently in nepal. Marxism-leninism is well alive, the communist party of austria is winning on salzburg and the workers party of belgium is winning. the colombian president is purging his army and ending the war with guerillas in his country.

>what's the next step of your master plan, you alienated freak
Acquire food and housing for myself and those closest to me, to keep not dying. If you've got the wiggle room to do something, do it. I've done my time and nothing came from it.

>>1821923
>Marxism-leninism is well alive, the communist party of austria is winning on salzburg and the workers party of belgium is winning. the colombian president is purging his army and ending the war with guerillas in his country.

Based

>>1821923
>There is a godanm revolution in philippines and we had one recently in nepal.
No there isn't. These revolutions you talk about are isolated insurgencies conducted entirely by small bands of militias taking advantage of desperate undeveloped rural classes. The communist revolution is the revolution of proletarians and these Maoist organizations have barely even a foothold with the urban prolet.

By the way, these same "revolutionaries" would, funnily enough, be disgusted by your later championing of bourgeois parliamentarianism considering they're essentially Gonzalols and have explicitly stated their opposition to electoral tactics. Unlike you, they at least have a basic grasp of what Marxism or Communism is.

>party of austria is winning on salzburg and the workers party of belgium is winning.
Lol. Lmao even. Even Stalin was calling socdems the left wing of fascism and now his descendants are hailing bourgeois electoralism conducted by opportunistic reformist parties as the saviors of the working class.

>the colombian president is purging his army and ending the war with guerillas in his country.
A bourgeois politician is returning his capitalist state from one of miserable anarchy to the status quo. Wow. Amazing prospects for the heckin revolutionerinoo.

Who let your clinically retarded parents have a child this stupid?

>>1821937
Nah bro you is fucking dishonest

So what are we supposed to do instead of doing nothing? Just swear off electoral politics entirely and build our political parties with the sole purpose of seceding from the united states so that we can institute socialism in breakaway regions of the country and destabilize imperialism in the west? Is there any strain of thought that actually supports that?

>>1821911
>what's the next step of your master plan, you alienated freak?

oh boy if only somebody wrote something about this

>>1821937
>>1821923
>>1821937
I just want to add on top of that, none of these things spell doom for Capital. Say a workers party wins in Austria. What on earth will they do? Waive away exploitation and capital through an act of parliament?

How hopelessly religious do you have to be to believe this? How utterly demented and poorly read on any matter of revolution, or of the process of dismantling capitalism do you have to be to think some petty election victory is somehow going to change the very order of society besides making it easier for the bourgeoisie to exploit proletarians for a longer period of time with a slightly less hellish state of affairs?

Or of these Maoists in Phillipines and Nepal. Let's say they magically overcome the fact that China, the United States and other regional powers would wipe them off the face of the earth if they even came close to winning. What else would they do but end up making the same mistakes as Mao – that being openly collaborating with bourgeois classes and developing a state directed form of capitalism as is inherent to the ideology? These are poor countries that have nothing to gain from some isolated ideological purity and would immediately be funneled into slavery to the capitalist market out of sheer necessity.


Stalinism is dead, and you're nothing more than a liberal workerist.

>>1821939
Not an argument uygha

>>1821943
Honestly i do not care if the maoist revolutionaries would be disgusted by me considering the fact that you compared a mass movement to some random internet sectarians.
>"bourgeois electoralism"
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/ch07.htm
<The conclusion which follows from this is absolutely incontrovertible: it has been proved that, far from causing harm to the revolutionary proletariat, participation in a bourgeois-democratic parliament, even a few weeks before the victory of a Soviet republic and even after such a victory, actually helps that proletariat to prove to the backward masses why such parliaments deserve to be done away with; it facilitates their successful dissolution, and helps to make bourgeois parliamentarianism “politically obsolete”.
>Stalinism is dead
"Stalinism", No communist use stalinism, plus your defense of terrorism over any kind of revoluctionary action just make you look like a glowie

>>1821941
Nobody is saying do nothing lol. Your fetish for electoralism is one that has always and will always fail because it comes hand in hand with class collaboration and concessions in favor of the bourgeoisie, and they will exploit these concessions ruthlessly in order to ensure they don't get annihilated.

>Just swear off electoral politics entirely and build our political parties with the sole purpose of seceding from the united states so that we can institute socialism in breakaway regions of the country and destabilize imperialism in the west?
This is some wacky imaginary socialism you made up in your head.

No war but class war. Turn the imperialist war into a civil war. Read Marx and Lenin instead of huffing RT headlines. There are strikes brewing across the world and the proletariat is finally emerging from a century of defeat. It's up to communists whether or not we will let this fly by and dissipate into nothing or turn into a real international mass movement that has workers collaborating across the boundaries of occupations, unions, countries and continents.

>>1821947
>Random internet sectarians
This proves to me your clinical retardation. The organizations you speak of are explicitly and openly Marxism Leninist Maoist (Principally Maoist) and are based off of the contributions of Gonzalo who has opposed parliamentarism and electoralism on every ground. Stop being obtuse.

>participation in a bourgeois-democratic parliament, even a few weeks before the victory of a Soviet republic and even after such a victory, actually helps that proletariat to prove to the backward masses why such parliaments deserve to be done away with; it facilitates their successful dissolution, and helps to make bourgeois parliamentarianism “politically obsolete”.
>prove to the backward masses why such parliaments deserve to be done away with; it facilitates their successful dissolution, and helps to make bourgeois parliamentarianism “politically obsolete”.
My fucking sides

Do you even read the thing you're quoting lmao. It is a direct contradiction to your foolishly hopeful claim of an imminent electoral victory of the Austrian reformist party. You claimed that an electoral victory was on the cusp of happening, and that it will usher in socialism and here Lenin is blatantly stating that bourgeois parliamentarism is politically obsolete and the only purpose for participation is to PROVE its obsoleteness. How ignorant can you be?

It's telling you refuse to answer the question of how an electoral victory will bring about the communist revolution in any way possible, and how they'll avoid collaboration with bourgeois classes in a way that will result in anything other than a defense of the status quo. Somehow, in your little tiny mind, you think they can waive away capitalism with an act of parliament!

>>1821950
>>1821947
>>Stalinism is dead
>"Stalinism", No communist use stalinism, plus your defense of terrorism over any kind of revoluctionary action just make you look like a glowie
You fell for a meme uygha. It's over for you. Put down the Ushanka and get a job.

If creating a revolutionary workers movement where that easy, everybody would do It. You guys talk as if this is an obvius option that no one is seeing

>>1821947
>>1821950 (You)
I also want to add that you refuse to engage in reading comprehension and resort to quote mongering, and mining little parts of texts in order to fit your religious narrative and hopefulness of reformism.

Lenin is speaking to the German leftcoms asking them to *clarify* themselves. He says:
<It is obvious that parliamentarianism in Germany is *not yet* politically obsolete.
He wrote this in *1920*

And you are now left with the task of demonstrating how parliamentarism in the age of capitalist decadence *in 2024* is still somehow *not yet obsolete*, how reformist "workers" parties are *still* useful, and how on earth they can do anything beyond "making things better", which concretely amounts to letting capitalism linger for an even longer period of time.

You refuse to do this, and I'm certain you have nothing to say to this because you have no analytical or reflective capabilities, and Lenin isn't a jumping point for further analysis in your case, but a prophet for you to tout around the word of as law.

>>1821950
>It's telling you refuse to answer the question of how an electoral victory will bring about the communist revolution in any way possible, and how they'll avoid collaboration with bourgeois classes in a way that will result in anything other than a defense of the status quo. Somehow, in your little tiny mind, you think they can waive away capitalism with an act of parliament!.
Read the fucking book your dishonest cunt before twisting what i am saying. Electoralism is a valid tatic to increase class consciousness. You deny any kind of proletarian organization to combat the capitalist system when things like this happen :https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/thousands-chile-walk-out-general-strike
You defend terrorism when workers are organizing and you dont even give a fuck about the electoralism argument you is zealously defending because you is a glowie.

>>1821958 (me)
>>1821957
>Defense of reformism.
Social democracy is the left wing of fascism. Nice try making also crap.

>>1821958
>>1821958
> Read the fucking book your dishonest cunt before twisting what i am saying.
I've read it before which is why I am responding to you, midwit. You clearly read it today after google searching quotes to back your outdated, outlandish position.

>Electoralism is a valid tatic to increase class consciousness.
Lenin does not say this once in the text you utter retard. More proof you haven't read it beyond snippets.

Explain how the electoral parties YOU brought up are doing this. Explain how the electoral parties you speak of are increasing "class consciousness". You will find that you cannot, that your entire position rests on misconstruing Lenin in order to fit your religious narrative. These parties are opportunistic, they are reformist and they will do nothing concretely as they explicitly seek to *reform* the democratic capitalist system, which even Stalin in his criticism of social democratic parties would point out that these maneuverings of bourgeois parties are simply a means to divert the class struggle from combativity towards the dead end of the ballot box.

>https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/thousands-chile-walk-out-general-strike
This is a good thing.

>You defend terrorism when workers are organizing and you dont even give a fuck about the electoralism argument you is zealously defending because you is a glowie.
Again, you fell for a meme moron. Workers organizing themselves are good. Bourgeois democracy is bad. Read a book and stop being a moron.

>>1821962
Explain the context of this quote

>>1821958
Also still laughing at how you haven't answered my question. Saying "read the text" over and over again is not an argument, especially since you haven't read it yourself as I have proven over and over again.

You're also changing the goalposts. Before you were pretending electoral victory was a prelude to revolution, now you've devolved to defending it on the basis of it "increasing class consciousness" – two entirely different things!

All the while also refusing to demonstrate how they have played the role of "increasing class consciousness" in either of the countries in which these parties you brought up operate. Show me the proof you dishonest bourgeois rube, show me the proof!

>>1821968
Reformism is anti-communist first at all. Bourgeois democracy is bad because capitalists handle all kind of political power to control.
When lenin said borgeois parlamentarism is not outdated is because it can be demonstrated its outdateness and not because communists should seek elections, but a means of organizing.
The moment a communist "wins" bourgois elections, the entire bourgeois class seeks to overthrow the rule, and they are willing to break even their made up rules for that.
Again a vanguard party is the best way to defend the proletarian revolution and every sucessful revolution just slaps on your head when you say stalinism is dead.

>>1821974
we gonna ask you to kill yourself by then, get your ass activated before the red army forms or no red army will ever form

>>1821972
You're responding to a different guy lol. I'm the guy who said Stalinism is dead and I also oppose bourgeois democracy just like you do lol. I oppose Stalinism because it always reverts and reduces itself to parliamentarism. We are arguing against the same person, the moron who thinks bourgeois electoral "workers" parties are going to win elections in Austria and turn it into a communist heaven or something.

>>1821977
My posts are as follows
>>1821971
>>1821965
>>1821957
>>1821950
>>1821948
>>1821943

>>1821976
Ok sorry i deleted my coment already. I did not think before posting

>>1821971
"All the while also refusing to demonstrate how they have played the role of "increasing class consciousness"
>The recently legalized Brazilian Communist Party elected 14 deputies, and the party's popular leader, Luís Carlos Prestes was elected to the Senate in Guanabara.
>https://www.tse.jus.br/jurisprudencia/julgados-historicos/cancelamento-de-registro-do-partido-comunista-brasileiro
The reason electoralism fails is when communist parties are not combative on the faces of injustice of the bourgeoise.
Fucking prestes defended the bourgeois JK than organizing the working class.
>>1821977
"stares into you"

>>1821911
defeatist shitpost

>>1821937
defeatist retard

>small bands of militias taking advantage of desperate undeveloped rural classes
can literally define most successful revolutionary movement in history before they start making big gains

>these same "revolutionaries" would, funnily enough, be disgusted by your later championing of bourgeois parliamentarianism
<yeah why use all the tools at our disposals just stay an irrelevant sect or go do adventurism
they literally got shot for engaging in regular "bourgeois parliamentarianism" ofc they went underground, this is not the situation in the imperial core

>>1821937
>hailing bourgeois electoralism conducted by opportunistic reformist parties
using electoralism as a platform to advance the cause was defended by all serious communist parties

>saviors of the working class
<thing nobody said
<dismissing all communist parties making gains in popular consciousness as "opportunists" with 0 argument beside "they engage in electoralism"

>Amazing prospects for the heckin revolutionerinoo.
<real gain for the people are worthless if theyre not immediately translated into the dotp

so basically anything short of immediate successful armed revolution must be denounced ?
fuck off useless retard you're worthless to any constructive movement

>>1821983

"All the while also refusing to demonstrate how they have played the role of "increasing class consciousness"
>The recently legalized Brazilian Communist Party elected 14 deputies, and the party's popular leader, Luís Carlos Prestes was elected to the Senate in Guanabara.
What does this have to do with "increasing class consciousness" lmfao, all this says is that they're winning elections, not that the workers are somehow on the cusp of revolution! How retarded are you man, you're embarassing yourself lmao

>>1821983
The reason electoralism fails is when communist parties are not combative on the faces of injustice of the bourgeoise.
Fucking prestes defended the bourgeois JK than organizing the working class.

>The reason electoralism fails is when communist parties are not combative on the faces of injustice of the bourgeoise.
>Fucking prestes defended the bourgeois JK than organizing the working class.
Because they can't be you lower lifeform, they work within the bounds of bourgeois law! What did you think would happen?

>>1821983 (me)
To add, the lack of combativeness and the coexistance theory created by the revisionists when they took power when stalin died, was applied on the communist party.
Through all means the bourgeois subverted democracy and there was no proletarian movement to combat it because it was all dead.
There still has the highest class counsciousness movement on history of brazil that used electoralism.

I love my Nutro-Goyslop and nagging boywife

>>1821986
Retard in general.

>can literally define most successful revolutionary movement in history before they start making big gains
Not at all. Read the history of the first and second internationales, moron.

>they literally got shot for engaging in regular "bourgeois parliamentarianism" ofc they went underground, this is not the situation in the imperial core
Still falling for the meme

>dismissing all communist parties making gains in popular consciousness as "opportunists" with 0 argument beside "they engage in electoralism"
My dismissal is based on their failure. Stop being an idiot.

>real gain for the people are worthless if theyre not immediately translated into the dotp
Yes. Capitalism still maintains its foothold. If you like poverty alleviation so much, go praise western liberal democracies for their gains in this matter. You aren't a communist anyways.

The proletarian movement is a movement for concrete gains in the matters of workers association and the transformation of society, not of "improving conditions" which amount to allowing capitalism to linger longer and longer because the workers have concessions that allow for it to be more tolerable and make revolution seem unnecessary. Think things through more and stop being a retard. Actually read Marx and Lenin.

>To add, the lack of combativeness and the coexistance theory created by the revisionists when they took power when stalin died, was applied on the communist party.
>When Stalin died
Great man derangement syndrome. Stalin was already collaborating with the Western imperialist bourgeoisie long before he died, backing the state of Israel, selling oil to the Germans etc. This isn't a problem of ideology, it's the fact that these "communist" parties are theoretically bankrupt and opportunistic, willing to side and work with the bourgeoisie who ruthlessly exploit the concessions they're given.
>There still has the highest class counsciousness movement on history of brazil that used electoralism.
You have literally zero evidence for the workers movement being tied to the petty electoral victory of bourgeois "communist" politicians, besides victories based on incomplete promises.

>Actually helps that proletariat to prove to the backward masses why such parliaments deserve to be done away with; it facilitates their successful dissolution, and helps to make bourgeois parliamentarianism “politically obsolete
Lmao proving my point moron. The obsoleteness of the parliamentarism has been proven by their failure, thanks for admitting it.

>>1821995
>>1821997
>Great man derangement syndrome. Stalin was already collaborating with the Western imperialist bourgeoisie long before he died, backing the state of Israel, selling oil to the Germans etc. This isn't a problem of ideology, it's the fact that these "communist" parties are theoretically bankrupt and opportunistic, willing to side and work with the bourgeoisie who ruthlessly exploit the concessions they're given.
Thats the only mistake he did, supporting israel. Stalin never collaborated with the western bourgeoise first at all, the soviet socialist system literally crushed fascism on its cradle, spreading the revolution to the most backward places of eastern europe is a thing that no other ideology did than marxism-leninism.
Churchill and other imperialists rats despised stalin and wanted the war to continue.
>You have literally zero evidence for the workers movement being tied to the petty electoral victory of bourgeois "communist" politicians, besides victories based on incomplete promises.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1945_Hungarian_parliamentary_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_Polish_parliamentary_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1946_Czechoslovak_parliamentary_election

What kind of schizophernic nonsense is this?