/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

Path of least resistance, chum!

>>1796788
silence!

>>1796780
I completely believe this

not to defend retards, but systems are made up of people, aren't they?
why completely disregard the human element when analyzing systems?

>>1838872
>systems are made up of people, aren't they?
They are not, but this is an easy mistake to make. The base/atomic unit of systems are not the individual people, but the relationships between individual people. This is a mistake made very consistently throughout history, as can be seen any time a political program is more concerned with liquidating individuals rather than reorganizing how they fit into society.

>>1838872
The human element should not be "completely disregarded", but it should not be considered primary. The human works within the conditions of the system, and treating the human element as fully autonomous leads to ineffective conclusions and victim blame.

>>1838872
I'm a Marxist, I'm not motivated by bizarre revenge fantasies or morally condemning a whole country of people.

the shit with people adding insipid and meaningless qualifiers to "capitalism" like "crony capitalism", "late capitalism", "unfettered capitalism" to make sure everyone understands that No True CapitalismTM would ever behave that way, truly fucking maddening

>>1839323
>Jews don't get expelled out of 109 countries for no reason.
When did you retards all get the memo that this would be your same talking point for the next year? it's weak OPSEC to just instantly start saying the same line verbatim everywhere, you're going to blow up your handler's spot

seriously though, keep it up and you're going to get curb stomped

>>1839332
Late Capitalism isn't a "no true capitalismo" thing, it's a statement that capitalism now is different to capitalism 50 years ago, and likely close to the end of capitalism itself.

dumb thread, marxism is the path of least resistance

> why are we oppressed
< wage slavery
> lets end it

>>1839358
creating a million social programs to undo some of the damage done by a fascist government will always be way more difficult than what the marxists are arguing for. as is trying to introduce stability into a system that is always in a state of disequilibrium (markets).

>>1839354
It's still a stupid adjective by analysislet liberals. Like capitalism 100-200 years ago was "better".

>>1839360
I don‘t think anyone says it was better, simply that capitalism has reached a new form.

Yeah but isn't that just what being a reactionary is?

This is unironically true. Try arguing with an average cuckservative and you will realize this. Some people just love to revel in their class-position so much that they cook up entire ideologies around it.

>>1796780
Sure, we call it false consciousness. I think you should go for a more catchy name though, that is less inflammatory, less likely to be censored by the auto bots and more poignantly describes the subject of said false consciousness. Name calling is a bad strategy when you're trying to convince people about something.

>>1839360
There was a definite turn of the bourgeoisie towards reaction following the 1848 revolutions I'm not sure what you mean. The Enlightmentment was the apogee of progressive bourgeois thought, relatively and historically speaking

>>1839432
>certitude, closure, safety, and predictability
Good thing Capital is doing its best to make sure such things go away.

>>1839358
> wage slavery

How did the wage system worked in the soviet union?

>>1796780
>the average person, here dubbed "retard" will always take the latter option, and look for and easy scapegoat.
they dont need to "look for an easy scapegoat.", massive amount of work and money goes into propaganda made to convince them of this. Getting duped doesnt mean you're a retard

>>1839735
why dont we have this level of empathy for young folk being duped by propaganda?

>>1840658
There's a difference between the genuinely duped and the pieces of shit whose belief in fascist propaganda is just a way for them to rationalize their sadism and avarice

>>1840663
youre assuming that most young people whom are duped by propaganda are willful sociopaths?

From what I see it seems more middle aged people

>>1840685
Not most, just the most openly malicious

>>1796780
>It has nothing to do with Israel being a US-backed settler colony who is armed to the teeth by the imperial core.
How does Israel benefit the US?

>>1796780
>Israel being a US-backed settler colony who is armed to the teeth by the imperial core.
At this point I think it's safe to say it's the other way around. The colony controls the core. The tale wags the dog.

>>1842996
The tail* wags the dog.

"Retard's razor" is exactly what it is - but it is not about "retarded people" as some unknown quality. It is retardation itself as a concept to condition human behavior and language down to the most minute interaction. The repetition ad nauseum of "retardism" conditions people to be followers of it, beaten down by the ideology, and use "retardism" as a tool to control world events.

At its heart is the failure to work with systems analytically, because effective systems analysis is limited no matter how smart anyone is. It is limited for any intelligence we could fathom.

Here's another one - the belief that the CIA is made of magic, and the CIA can totally manipulate world events by saying the words alone. The CIA itself would like the rubes to believe this is how it works, because it makes their job easier, and they can weaponize this. But, any intelligence agency must operationalize all of this. The resources of an intelligence agency are larger, and intelligence agencies and human beings are not the same thing. The agency can present as something no human individually ever can, and the agency is singular - it's called "central" for a reason. The retard version of criticism is to believe in the magic of words and information, and this is ubiquitous whenever any intelligence work is discussed - because the society we live in conditions mass behavior to believe this is what should rule and the only thing that can rule. The implications of this are much more than something about the CIA. There's a reason why the CIA can do all that it does.

>>1842996
Because your vibes say so? Israel gets so much help from America because it's the only country in the middle-east that is willing to help America control that area.

>>1843360
US has established relations with most of the important states in the region. The Saudi royal family does the Satanic orb ceremony even. US has its tentacles in Iran for fucks' sake.

Israel is not there for the US. It's there to discipline the US and tie its fate inextricably to the global empire. America doesn't get shit from Israel. Israel gets shit from America to serve Israel's interests. The US would love for Israel to not disturb anything in the region, since it can't get rid of Israel. For everything the US wanted, Israel has been a pure liability. The empire always had far better ways to control the Arabs and Iranians, going back to the Lawrence of Arabia episode. But, the global empire kisses Israel's ass, because of their role as a mafia haven and because Israel can realize their Satanic-Luciferian idea of reviving Babylon or some shit like that. None of that shit has any obvious payoff that serves a "national interest". It's about the imperial elite satisfying their aristocratic space alien mythology.

The sick thing is that this really is what Israel is about if you look at any of their actions. It would be trivial for Israel to stop confiscating Arab land. It would be better long-term for Israel to abandon its ethnonationalist ideology - this is something a few less stupid people in Israel would do. But, they were sold the promise that they were going to be conquerors and had that ideology mainlined into them for decades. The less stupid people there will tell you this is a way for them to get fucked when the Muslims have actual armies and Israel can't threaten to start a general war any more.

So, Israel's actions are rational if you understand that - that they're going to do the Samson Option to go down in flames, just as they promised. Whether it happens sooner or later, it will happen, and they will not stop until they make the world go along with this insanity, or they are extinguished.

>>1843370
>Israel is not there for the US. It's there to discipline the US and tie its fate inextricably to the global empire.
????

>America doesn't get shit from Israel.
?????????????????????

>>1843383
Name one thing Israel has given to America recently except problems and child porn. Consider all of the stuff the US does to start war, foment revolution, and manage state affairs on its own, and how much of a liability Israel is for that. Israel is not a threat to use against the region, because the chief reason for the Muslim non-cooperation has been Israel's aims to wage war on the basis of ethnonationalism. If not for that, the states of the region would be more than happy to open relations with the US, despite everything, just to get them off their back.

So much comes back to insisting that the Iraq War was some brilliant imperial masterstroke or necessary, when it was really about this insane vision of the imperial aristocracy. The smarter heads in the geopolitical brain trust were facepalming, and these are people who have no problem with genocide. They saw how pointless the adventure was, and the pseudo-financial rationale of "it's about the oil" is nonsensical if you think about what oil really means in this time. The empire always has to insist its decisions are infallible - Big Brother can never make a wrong prediction - but the entire thing was stupidity sold to people who wanted the rot and grift to go on for a little longer.

>>1843398
It's profitable for Burger Porky and it's outsourced R & D for the MIC and cop tactics.

>>1843398
Israel is pretty much a US base in a highly strategic and profitable zone.

>>1843360
>the only country in the middle-east that is willing to help America control that area.
The Saudis have been extremely amenable
In fact, without Israel, the US would have a much easier time controlling the area
Israel is a huge liability to US hegemony and this colonial outpost narrative simply doesn't cut the mustard anymore
The only people who assert that Israel is vital to US interests are die hard christfag zionist republicans, ziofascist neo cons, and theorylets like you

>>1843370
>their Satanic-Luciferian idea of reviving Babylon
Retard alert
Nah it's pretty much Yahwehist prophecy of muh chosen ruling the world from jerusalem when their mashiach shows up
Don't bring the much smeared Babylonians into this

>>1843479
Low lQ

in the past we had the South Korean lobby, the china lobby, the South Vietnam, South Africa apartheid lobby etc… while these had strategic benefits, just like Israel, but none of them have the same power, or the reaction to opposition like the Israelis do.

>>1843402
It's profitable for taking everyone's shit and making them slaves… with Israel getting free shit and able to come and go as they please. Who benefits? A country that cannibalizes its own productive base is no longer "the US" or any country at all. "America" isn't getting anything out of this. The criminal organization called "Israel" are treated like royalty while we are poisoned from cradle to grade. The ordinary "Israelis" don't get much out of the deal, but they imbibe the Jewish supremacist religion over there.

When Israel falls, you're going to see just who was "on top" this whole time, so far as any country benefitted at all. But, this is globalization - a world of endlessly backstabbing, where humanity is herded into holding pens and told "this is what you are". We're just starting to see how horrible this gets.

>>1843579
Those lobbies were led by American / Anglo investors with a base, and their compradors in the country. There was a clear line of economic development and cooperation for the interests involved - a terrible plan for the world, but you could see those cooperations as win-win for the conspirators and against the public.

Israel is something else entirely. Israel produces nothing but torture and rape. That is its world-historical mission. The entire project is pure death, so odious that no one can say with a straight face what it is for. What Israel aims for is something very different from the usual dickering for political office. Usually the lobbies are doing what the trading companies were doing, but with more local interests. Israel is an enterprise with no "material interest" other than creating more torture and death for its own sake.

Ok